Australian Pale Ale

[stux]

Thanks for the tips. I have done the yeast process and have 2 jars with the LDME and the yeast split between them (didnt have 1 good sized container).

this process has generated a lot of questions for me

Can i do this same process with the yeast cake at the bottom of a brew in the fermenter?
If i had dry hopped and had hops and stuff on the yeast cake would this matter or always use the muslin bag for hops when you wanna save the yeast.
How much yeast cake/slurry stuff do you use in a normal brew?
What will happen if i dont understand the yeast concentration in the cake and end up puting too much, will it just ferment quicker?
What do you people do with the yeast that comes with kits?

Look into Rinsing Yeast : http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=55409

BUT, in all seriousness, this is a mildly advanced technique, and if you're only a few brews into your brewing career you may want to make sure that your sanitation techniques are really top notch before harvesting your possibly contaminated trub

The reason you go through the rigamarole of growing the coopers yeast up from the bottle dregs is its basically the only way to get a hold of the right yeast to make a Coopers Pale Ale, which is the definitive Aussie Pale Ale. Or you could get Whitelabs 009.

But hey, harvesting coopers yeast is fun... and its a good excuse to buy a sixpack

NB: harvesting yeast from bottles only works if the bottle was bottle conditioned and specifically if it was bottle conditioned with the primary strain

 

[pmastello]

If you are trying to replicate the Mornington Pale ale, worrying about Coopers yeast is going down the wrong path.
From this description http://www.mpbrew.com.au/Pale It states that it is an American Pale ale.
APAs almost exclusively use a clean yeast like the US05 you had originally.

Having never had the Mornington Pale ale you are trying to replicate, I can't speak with too much authority, but with the website description, I would be changing your late hops to Cascade and Amarillo. Bittering charge doesn't have to be Pride of Ringwood as everyone is saying. You could keep the EKG for bittering.

 

[1974Alby]

Thanks for the tips. I have done the yeast process and have 2 jars with the LDME and the yeast split between them (didnt have 1 good sized container).

this process has generated a lot of questions for me

Can i do this same process with the yeast cake at the bottom of a brew in the fermenter?

you can simply add your next wort directly onto the yeast cake...or, sterilise a jar and collect some (about a cup is plenty) of the yeast cake when you next empty the fermenter...keep it in the fridge and simply bring it back to room temp and pitch into your next wort after cleaning and sanitising the fermentor (I have kept and used yeast in this manner for about 2 weeks..any longer and I would look into rinsing and stepping up)

If i had dry hopped and had hops and stuff on the yeast cake would this matter or always use the muslin bag for hops when you wanna save the yeast.

you can rinse yeast and remove hop debris fairly easily...I think Wolfy has an article on it in the articles tab at the top of this site..


How much yeast cake/slurry stuff do you use in a normal brew?
I have used as little as 1/2 a cup (after bottling/kegging I pour off remaining liquid and then swirl the fermentor to loosen up the yeast cake and use some of this slurry)...or oten I simply pour my next wort directly onto the whole yeast cake (even if Ive dry hopped..might not be best practice but its easy and tastes ok to me)


What will happen if i dont understand the yeast concentration in the cake and end up puting too much, will it just ferment quicker?

apparently you can 'over pitch'..I figure thats what happens when I add fresh wort directly to the old yeast cake..neer noticed any ill effect, but others might be able to explain the theory behind why you shouldnt do it...I say just do it...I like to keep it simple and the beer tastes good!



What do you people do with the yeast that comes with kits?

throw it in the bin...or boil it up with the ldme when making a 1040 starter...apparently this kills all the yeast and makes a good yeast nutrient. I tried that once and my starter was super cloudy and sedimenty..wouldnt bother with it again personally but im sure others swear by it.

 

[Bribie G]

Sounds like you are on the right track with the yeast culturing - just be patient for a couple of days.

 

[jimmythehuman]

Thanks for the of the tips, am taking it all in.

GingerBrew: I got myself confused. I have been reading so much about so many different recipes and techniques etc. I thought they had said is Australian. They have a craft brewing event there on weekend i will walk down and have a few and see if what i can learn.

I had another go at spreadsheet. I will have a crack and see what happens Some one already said, at least i will have beer

20l
Morgans Unhopped Pale 1.5kg
Wheat Dry Malt 1.0kg
Medium Crystal .25kg
Wheat Malt .25kg
Dextrose .25kg

Citra 10g @ 60min (cant seem to find, whats the next best?)
Amarillo 20g @ 60min
Galaxy 10g @ 15min
US05 Yeast (any reason i cant use my coopers yeast?)

 

[ekul]

That above recipe is starting to look a little mixed up. I'm not sure why you'd put the amarillo and citra @ 60, and then mix it with saaz. PLus the 200g of wheat malt (grain) will need mashing. And for such a small amount i can't see that it will be worth it.

For simple coopers tasting aussie ale do the following

1.5kg pale unhopped malt
1kg dry malt (use the wheat if you want, but ordinary dry malt will do)
.5kg sugar or dextrose


28g of POR flowers orpellets @ 45min

So get 3L of water, add 300g of light dry malt or a third of a tin of malt extract. Bring to the boil. Boil the pride of ringwood hops for 45mins, turn off the heat. Add the rest of your ingredients (malt and sugar). Top up to 21L in the fermenter with cold water. Tmep should be around 18C. Throw in the coopers yeast and ferment as close to 16.5 as you can.

If your yeast doesn't work for some reason when you're building it up just use US05. WOn't be the same as as coopers but will be tasty all the same.

If you want an american pale ale recipe do a search for Neills centarillo. Its a cracker of an extract recipe and was what i made most of when i was doing extract brews. Another good one is Dr smurtos golden ale, do s earch for the extract version. Don't know how the coopers yeast would go in these.

 

[QldKev]

Thanks for the tips. I have done the yeast process and have 2 jars with the LDME and the yeast split between them (didnt have 1 good sized container).

this process has generated a lot of questions for me

Can i do this same process with the yeast cake at the bottom of a brew in the fermenter?
If i had dry hopped and had hops and stuff on the yeast cake would this matter or always use the muslin bag for hops when you wanna save the yeast.
How much yeast cake/slurry stuff do you use in a normal brew?
What will happen if i dont understand the yeast concentration in the cake and end up puting too much, will it just ferment quicker?
What do you people do with the yeast that comes with kits?

Purist with their special books that give them super powers will tell me I'm wrong... I read the books too, I used to have test tubes of yeast and grow them up. I use to wash yeast from old yeast cakes to re-use... It was fun for a year or so, but it's all too much work for me. What I have been getting decent results with is
Allow some residual beer on top of the yeast cake in the fermenter
Swirl to mix yeast cake and beer
Pour into sanitise 330ml coke bottle to store*
Leave about 330ml in the fermenter if you want to reuse it straight away.


* To store the 330ml just throw it in a fridge. When you want to use it allow it to come up to the same temp as the wort your pitching into. Pour a little of the beer off the top for a taste test. If all ok pitch the entire bottle into the wort and your done.

QldKev

 

[///]

Original recipe had carapils in it, unless doing a mini mash this i redundant. The malt needs to be mashed.

I also did not undertand the note about ditching UK hops for POR. POR is an EKG derivative, so is use in that wrong?

Scotty

 

[QldKev]

Original recipe had carapils in it, unless doing a mini mash this i redundant. The malt needs to be mashed.

I also did not undertand the note about ditching UK hops for POR. POR is an EKG derivative, so is use in that wrong?

Scotty

I didn't know POR was from EKG, interesting.

I love both EKG and also POR and always have them on hand, but POR tastes very different to EKG.

edit: To answer your Q, yes I think EKG is wrong in an Australian Pale Ale


QldKev

 

[Smokomark]

Purist with their special books that give them super powers will tell me I'm wrong... I read the books too, I used to have test tubes of yeast and grow them up. I use to wash yeast from old yeast cakes to re-use... It was fun for a year or so, but it's all too much work for me. What I have been getting decent results with is
Allow some residual beer on top of the yeast cake in the fermenter
Swirl to mix yeast cake and beer
Pour into sanitise 330ml coke bottle to store*
Leave about 330ml in the fermenter if you want to reuse it straight away.


* To store the 330ml just throw it in a fridge. When you want to use it allow it to come up to the same temp as the wort your pitching into. Pour a little of the beer off the top for a taste test. If all ok pitch the entire bottle into the wort and your done.

QldKev

Is that amount for a single batch Kev?

 

[iralosavic]

Purist with their special books that give them super powers will tell me I'm wrong... I read the books too, I used to have test tubes of yeast and grow them up. I use to wash yeast from old yeast cakes to re-use... It was fun for a year or so, but it's all too much work for me. What I have been getting decent results with is
Allow some residual beer on top of the yeast cake in the fermenter
Swirl to mix yeast cake and beer
Pour into sanitise 330ml coke bottle to store*
Leave about 330ml in the fermenter if you want to reuse it straight away.


* To store the 330ml just throw it in a fridge. When you want to use it allow it to come up to the same temp as the wort your pitching into. Pour a little of the beer off the top for a taste test. If all ok pitch the entire bottle into the wort and your done.

QldKev

What is the longest you have stored unwashed yeast this way and re-used it with no ill effect? - I have a gigantic yeast cake of s189 that I don't want to waste, but don't have the time to muck around too much.

 

[QldKev]

Is that amount for a single batch Kev?

Good point I should have stated that. Yep pitch rate is for a standard 23L batch.

What is the longest you have stored unwashed yeast this way and re-used it with no ill effect? - I have a gigantic yeast cake of s189 that I don't want to waste, but don't have the time to muck around too much.

I aim for 3 months, but have had them for up to 6 months. Just do the taste test first, if the beer taste bad or like Vegemite chuck it. Also if I plan on keeping for 3+ months I fill a 600ml bottle.


Myself and a brewer in Brisbane have even posted these bottles to each other and have no ill effects.


QldKev

 

[///]

I didn't know POR was from EKG, interesting.

I love both EKG and also POR and always have them on hand, but POR tastes very different to EKG.

edit: To answer your Q, yes I think EKG is wrong in an Australian Pale Ale


QldKev

Kev, I believe a EKG root stock with a graft ontop ...

 

[Bribie G]

"The Australian hop research station at Ringwood, near Melbourne, has recently been closed, at least partially because the variety Pride of Ringwood has been so successful. Released in 1958, it was developed at this station, which was largely supported by the brewing industry. This high-yielding, high-alpha variety is from a cross between an open-pollinated seedling of the English variety Pride of Kent and a Tasmanian male. Today it occupies nearly all of Australia's hop areas. Of the 1,055 ha of commercial Australian hop production, 43% are grown on the mainland in Victoria, primarily in the district of Myrrhea (320 ha) and in the Ovens Valley (148 ha) (25). The remaining 587 ha are grown in Tasmania, around Hobart near the southern tip of the island (362 ha), and near Scottsdale in the north (225 ha). Pride of Ringwood is also grown commercially in South Africa and in India, but the variety matures too late in the United States to be of commercial value there."

The American Society of Brewing Chemists journal, Vol 39 no 1 around 1980.

 

[RobW]

"The Australian hop research station at Ringwood, near Melbourne, has recently been closed"

Look at what's come out of NZ in the last few years and then wonder what might have been.

 

[ekul]

What is the longest you have stored unwashed yeast this way and re-used it with no ill effect? - I have a gigantic yeast cake of s189 that I don't want to waste, but don't have the time to muck around too much.

If the yeast is really old you can pour off the beer (taste it to make sure its good) and then pour the yeast down the bottom into a 2L coke bottle. Add 1.5L of wort and shake the shit out of it when ever you walk passed. After a week the yeast will settle to the bottom. Pour off the beer and then use the yeast, it will be good to go again.


I almost never need to do this, i use a small number of yeasts so they always get a rotation.

 

[jimmythehuman]

well this thread ended up being a bit of a mix of lots of stuff, but i ahve learned a lot. I have the coppers yeast fermenting, i will try and rinse it and step it up this week and maybe use it next weekend. If not it was still good learning and i got to drink 3 coopers long necks.

I learnt that the style i was thinking wasnt coopers at all...i listened and searched and found that what i wanted was APA, or as close to Mornington Pale Ale. Good excuse to spend Sat arvo down the brewery.

I ended brewing;

20l
Coopers Light Malt Extract tin
Wheat Malt extract 1.0
Dex .25kg
Crystal Med 120 .250kg

Citra 20g 60min
Amarillo 12g 30min
Galaxy 12g 30min
us05

OG 1050 and hoping for 1010/1012
Aimed for EMC 13 and IBU 30

I am sure i have a lot to learn about hop timing and volumes and combinations, but a sneaky taste tonight and i am pretty excited. Only my 3rd brew and using the spreadsheet and hours of reading on here i think i have at least made, beer

Thanks for the tips i cant wait! to post a pic of a poured glass

 

[jimmythehuman]

Well. I am not sure what I was expecting, but this beer has turned out sensational and everyone i give it to reckons i bought it and peeled the labels off.

I am giving Neils Centarillo ago next and then i will have another go at this one...

Using the carb drops it takes 2.5 weeks for bubbles, using bulk prime (i only used 110g sugar in this batch) i got bulk bubbles in a week...is that typical?

 

[DarkFaerytale]

glad your beer turned out well

the centarillo is a good beer

I don't know about typical but it can depend on ambient temperature, bulk priming rate and how long it takes for the carbonation drops to disolve. if your brew was 20 ltr's & 110g of sugar to bulk prime. thats about 2.4 volumes of C02, sounds about right to me.