Australian Brewers Association

[BrissyBrew]

Is it time for a not for profit Australian Homebrewers Association be formed?

-There are a number of national/Australian/state/regional home brew competitions running.
-various brew clubs scatted around the country
-a number of state and national bodies

Having a single association would allow simply things like public liablity for all the brew clubs across the country, national standard for judging, conferences, competions, a body free from commerical interests and more representative of all brewers. Although we are smaller in number I actually think the yanks have it all over us on this one with the American Brewers Association/American Homebrewers Association.

Anyways its just an idea and would like to hear peoples thoughts on this one.

 

[Andyd]

Is it time for a not for profit Australian Homebrewers Association be formed?

-There are a number of national/Australian/state/regional home brew competitions running.
-various brew clubs scatted around the country
-a number of state and national bodies

Having a single association would allow simply things like public liablity for all the brew clubs across the country, national standard for judging, conferences, competions, a body free from commerical interests and more representative of all brewers. Although we are smaller in number I actually think the yanks have it all over us on this one with the American Brewers Association/American Homebrewers Association.

Anyways its just an idea and would like to hear peoples thoughts on this one.

G'day Frank,

There actually is already an organisation along these lines - the Australian Amateur Brewing Association. They're the guys who set up and govern the AABC.

AABA is made up of representatives of the state associations (VicBrew, WCB, Canberra Brewers, Brisbane Amateur Beer Brewers, Adelaide Brewers Club and (I'm not sure who the reps are from NSW).

I can't speak for any of these personally, but I know Vicbrew has reps from the victorian clubs. So if you're a member of a club down here at least you have representation at a national level. There is a statement on the AABC website i theHistory document that talks about the reps being self appointed. I'm not sure what that's really referring to...

You ask some good questions about fuctions like liability etc, and I've been asking questions along a similar line as a member of the Melbourne Brewers committee recently, so we may have similar thoughts on this one...

So the question is what is required that these bodies are not already providing, and what is the best way to go about providing those functions.

Cheers!

Andy

 

[BrissyBrew]

G'day Frank,

There actually is already an organisation along these lines - the Australian Amateur Brewing Association. They're the guys who set up and govern the AABC.

AABA is made up of representatives of the state associations (VicBrew, WCB, Canberra Brewers, Brisbane Amateur Beer Brewers, Adelaide Brewers Club and (I'm not sure who the reps are from NSW).

I can't speak for any of these personally, but I know Vicbrew has reps from the victorian clubs. So if you're a member of a club down here at least you have representation at a national level. There is a statement on the AABC website i theHistory document that talks about the reps being self appointed. I'm not sure what that's really referring to...

You ask some good questions about fuctions like liability etc, and I've been asking questions along a similar line as a member of the Melbourne Brewers committee recently, so we may have similar thoughts on this one...

So the question is what is required that these bodies are not already providing, and what is the best way to go about providing those functions.

Cheers!

Andy

Hi Andy I am aware of AABC and also a member of BABBs.
I still dont think we have everybody aboard and there are still a few other "national" comps around. Public liability insurance would be a bonus for clubs, but members of a national body would probably also want some of the perks offered in the US, discounts at pubs/micros, a magazine, conferences, members card and a more official portal to their national club. Promotion of the body through home brew shops, functions, its own magazine to build a member base. How many Australians are members of AHA threw their zymurgy subscription? At present AABC appears to be brewing competition focused and not a member based organisation. I think the formation of a national body could help tie together a number of great brewing associations already in existence and build something independent and member focused to go beyond a brewing competition model to something more. Linking members, seeding brew clubs in areas where there are none. Personally I would like to see something which is a national body that is not state tiered.

I take my hat off to you for organising the conference for the effort and risk involved. No doubt a national body could draw on additional resources to assist with these types of functions.

 

[Aaron]

It's a great idea but it requires someone to get out there and do it. It is the kind of thing I would want to be involved with but like most people don't have the time to get out there and do the hard yards. Like most I would be willing to throw money at it but it needs a leader to make something happen.

 

[lowtech]

Is it time for a not for profit Australian Homebrewers Association be formed?

a body free from commerical interests and more representative of all brewers.

That rules out all retailers such as yourself on this site.

 

[Darren]

Hey Brissy,

I suspect if this was going to happen it would have years ago. I have personally witnessed two attempts at organising a constitutionalised homebrew club.

The last attempt resulted in the Treasurer thumping his fist on the table and walking out of the room with all the funds and minutes of all previous meetings (never to be seen again).

I think That AABC do a great job but obviously there are problems with it.

I cannot ever imagine how a national, unified, non profit, homebrew organisation could exist in Australia. I am happy to be corrected.


cheers

Darren

 

[Ray_Mills]

Is it time for a not for profit Australian Homebrewers Association be formed?

-There are a number of national/Australian/state/regional home brew competitions running.
-various brew clubs scatted around the country
-a number of state and national bodies

Having a single association would allow simply things like public liablity for all the brew clubs across the country, national standard for judging, conferences, competions, a body free from commerical interests and more representative of all brewers. Although we are smaller in number I actually think the yanks have it all over us on this one with the American Brewers Association/American Homebrewers Association.

Anyways its just an idea and would like to hear peoples thoughts on this one.

Hi
Just start it and let me know how you get along
Cheers
Ray

 

[Ray_Mills]

G'day Frank,

There actually is already an organisation along these lines - the Australian Amateur Brewing Association. They're the guys who set up and govern the AABC.

AABA is made up of representatives of the state associations (VicBrew, WCB, Canberra Brewers, Brisbane Amateur Beer Brewers, Adelaide Brewers Club and (I'm not sure who the reps are from NSW).

I can't speak for any of these personally, but I know Vicbrew has reps from the victorian clubs. So if you're a member of a club down here at least you have representation at a national level. There is a statement on the AABC website i theHistory document that talks about the reps being self appointed. I'm not sure what that's really referring to...

You ask some good questions about fuctions like liability etc, and I've been asking questions along a similar line as a member of the Melbourne Brewers committee recently, so we may have similar thoughts on this one...

So the question is what is required that these bodies are not already providing, and what is the best way to go about providing those functions.

Cheers!

Andy

Andy
NSW is represented from the IBU's, and representitives for the Hunter Brewers.
Our web site is
www.ibunion.org
have a look around the site and see if we make a contribution to home brewing in Australia
Ray

 

[Andyd]

Andy
NSW is represented from the IBU's, and representitives for the Hunter Brewers.
Our web site is
www.ibunion.org
have a look around the site and see if we make a contribution to home brewing in Australia
Ray

Thanks Ray - I knew someone would pipe up

Frank, I think it would be good to see a national body providing the services you're suggesting, and once the conference is done I'd even give some thought to being involved. Having said that I don't think that simply setting up an organisation without exploring the available alternatives is the way to go.

With AABA already etablished, along with the state bodies, my inclination is to go to these bodies and have them address our concerns. I agree that their current focus appears to be organising competitions, but it is still the national body at present. If it turns out that they intend to remain focused on running the competitions, at that point there may be room to establish a new organisation.

I've got a feeling that this is an enormous task, particularly once we start talking about producing magazines, and attempting to coordinate competitions (if you've seen any of the discussions of late about styles for AABC you'll know what I mean!)

Like I said, I'd be keen to explore the options, indeed I started the ball rolling down here last month. I'd suggest that the first steps would be to draw up a schedule of services you believe that the state and ntional groups should be providing and circulate this among thestate clubs for the state body and AABA to address. I've already tarted our list for Victoria, and will be trying to get some local traction on this in the coming weeks.

Andy

 

[lonte]

I think we probably all look to the Ameriacan Homebrewer's Association with envy as the kind of thing that we would love to see here. AFAIK that organisation has a number of paid full-time positions and, with all due respect to the best intentions of volunteers, _that_ is what makes it work so well. That and the population of Home Brewers in the US - the two sort of work together - they have the member numbers that allows for a core group of people who's paid job it is each and every day to make their association work. As with many other things, Australia's low population make that kind of thing impossible to reproduce here.

 

[Tony]

Public liability insurance.......... I guess there are some sus beers entered to comps hey

Seriously though........ what advantage would this give "at home" brewers?

Another dificult to communicate with organisation that seems to hold itself above ordinary folk (brewers) and governs itself how it pleases.

Sorry but i think local club level organisation works well as its on a personal level.

On a national level its a jusr buisness and the fun goes out the window every time.

I really question the value of national brewing clubs/comitties/regulation, when the states and national bodies cant settle on a formal rule to which comps are judged by!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thats my 2 bobs worth......... nothing more!

cheers

 

[lowtech]

I cannot ever imagine how a national, unified, non profit, homebrew organisation could exist in Australia. I am happy to be corrected.

especially when his avatar photo is redolent of this

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Thats just funny lowtech.

Two things popped into my head while reading these threads.

First my response to Tony's point - I'm not in a homebrewing club and I'm never going to be in a homebrewing club. I'm just not a club kind of a guy. Associations however... are pretty damn valuable. I'm a member of the AHA via my Zymurgy subscription and I have no doubt whatsoever that I would et enormous value out of that membership if I happened to actually live in America.

And that leads to my second thing - why re-invent the wheel? Fair enough an association that went beyond the current organization might well be desirable, but why re-invent the wheel (to get all meeting speak about it ) couldn't it be set-up as local AHA branch?? Remember that the (American) AHA is a subset of the larger Brewers Association, which attracts commercial brewery members from all over the world, why couldn't the (Australian) AHA just be another susbset? ... Then it would have a magazine - that might include a little more international content if the AHA had overseas branches - it would have paid positions and the benefits that go with them, it would have commercial relationships with insurance agencies, etc etc etc. All the good stuff.

A goodly few of us would even already be members.. its just that then we would get a little more value out of our membership card.

Those Americans have a good thing going over there. We already sit BJCP examinations and run most of our comps to the BA/BJCP standards, why not jump all the way in? we can be nationalistic about it... or we could politely stick our hands up in the air and ask if we could please sir have a little more.

I'd personally see quite a lot of value in being a member of a local organization that was able to tap into those sorts of international resources and influence.

Course - they might just tell us to piss off

 

[newguy]

(snip)Associations however... are pretty damn valuable. I'm a member of the AHA via my Zymurgy subscription and I have no doubt whatsoever that I would et enormous value out of that membership if I happened to actually live in America.(snip)

I've never been a member of the AHA and I never will be. The reason why is that about the same time I started brewing 12 years ago, there was a very long and protracted discussion on hbd.org regarding just what benefits being an AHA member actually got you. There were also some detailed first hand accounts regarding the head of the AHA, Charlie Papazian. They weren't good.

At that time, the consensus was that the magazine (Zymurgy) was marginal at best. Now, according to the AHA's website, for $43 US/year, you get Zymurgy, access to the AHA's techtalk forum & the forum archives, the pub discount program, book discounts, and "special event discounts." The discounts that being an AHA member entitle you to are well hyped by the AHA, but in practice are non-existent (more on this later). The last benefit is that you get a discount on entries to the NHC.

Techtalk: don't care. Not any value to me because of this site, hbd.org, and dozens of other free homebrewing forums.
Book Discounts: don't care. If I'm going to buy a book, I'll buy the book. A small discount is not a consideration.
Special Event Discounts: don't care as travel to & from the special events dwarfs the discount I'll get. If I'm going to spend the $ to go, a small discount is 'piss in the ocean.'
Pub Discount Program: non-existent. Several members of my club are also AHA members (or rather were AHA members), and a few years ago they went to Houston Texas to take in the Houston Foam Rangers Dixie Cup competition. I think it is often the 2nd largest competition in the world, only outdone by the NHC. They regularly get ~1000 entries per year. These friends of mine stopped in many pubs, most of them mentioned by name in the AHA's pub discount program, and not one of them had heard of the AHA or the discount program. They spoke to management whenever possible, and not one of them had heard of the program, nor would they offer discounts. The Houston 'locals' got a big laugh out of watching the Canadians try to take advantage of the discount their AHA membership supposedly entitled them to. They learned long ago that it didn't exist.
Zymurgy: the issues I've taken a look at weren't worth $43 per year. Granted, I've not looked at all of them, but I've seen homebrew club newsletters with more, and more detailed, content. [OT: who else misses Brewing Techniques?]

There's recently been some discussions between a few Canadian homebrew clubs regarding the possibility of starting a Canadian Homebrew Association. I honestly don't think the idea will get that far because it's a huge job to undertake, especially if volunteers run the organization. But we have some ideas and we'll see where they take us. Good luck with your efforts, as I would truly love to see an alternative to the US-centric AHA.

 

[BrissyBrew]

That rules out all retailers such as yourself on this site.

True, it sure does lowtech. Happy to be excused from all the work. But still happy to sponsor and support the brewing community.

Hey Brissy,
I suspect if this was going to happen it would have years ago. I have personally witnessed two attempts at organising a constitutionalised homebrew club.
The last attempt resulted in the Treasurer thumping his fist on the table and walking out of the room with all the funds and minutes of all previous meetings (never to be seen again).
I think That AABC do a great job but obviously there are problems with it.
I cannot ever imagine how a national, unified, non profit, homebrew organisation could exist in Australia. I am happy to be corrected.

cheers

Darren

That's a shame Darren, I am a proud member of BABBs which is a constitutionalised home brew club. I will have to ask the club founder and some of the older members but I just cant imagine the Treasurer thumping his fists on the table spitting the dummy and taking his bat and ball and running home like a baby. I guess it is all a question of the people involved.

Sorry but i think local club level organisation works well as its on a personal level.
I really question the value of national brewing clubs/comitties/regulation, when the states and national bodies cant settle on a formal rule to which comps are judged by!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thats my 2 bobs worth......... nothing more!

cheers

Tony obviously you're already close and attend a local club, what about seeding and starting local clubs in different areas. There are a number of areas with enough brewers to support a local club but I just dont think there is a structure and an organising body to assist them with start up.

Fair enough an association that went beyond the current organization might well be desirable, but why re-invent the wheel (to get all meeting speak about it ) couldn't it be set-up as local AHA branch?? Remember that the (American) AHA is a subset of the larger Brewers Association, which attracts commercial brewery members from all over the world, why couldn't the (Australian) AHA just be another susbset? ... Then it would have a magazine - that might include a little more international content if the AHA had overseas branches - it would have paid positions and the benefits that go with them, it would have commercial relationships with insurance agencies, etc etc etc. All the good stuff.

A goodly few of us would even already be members.. its just that then we would get a little more value out of our membership card.

Those Americans have a good thing going over there. We already sit BJCP examinations and run most of our comps to the BA/BJCP standards, why not jump all the way in? we can be nationalistic about it... or we could politely stick our hands up in the air and ask if we could please sir have a little more.

I'd personally see quite a lot of value in being a member of a local organization that was able to tap into those sorts of international resources and influence.

Course - they might just tell us to piss off

Thirsty Boy, you do have a point, why reinvent the wheel. Join the AHA or BA. The addition of tagging on membership would provide some instant benefits as far as a magazine subscribtion goes, (OT: I too miss Brewing Techniques). On a personal note accepting that it is not perfect but it is standardised BJCP comps could have some benefits, as a chapter of AHA I wounder if the winners of our national comp could go on to the AHA comp. If we went down this road I wonder with ANZAC day closely upon us if New Zealanders would also be interested. Also there would be a reasonable number of AHA members aleady in Australia, which provides a membership base and also a saving for the members of not joining another body. It does point to the path of least resistance.

 

[Paul H]

I just cant imagine the Treasurer thumping his fists on the table spitting the dummy and taking his bat and ball and running home like a baby. I guess it is all a question of the people involved.

I'll take that as compliment Frank

Being involved with a constitutionalized club (Babbs) that has been going some 32 years & being involved on a state association (QAAWBG) also 30 years that represents clubs, provides p\l insurance & annual competitions I can see the value.
The challenge is to make sure that each of the bodies provides value for their respective members. With time constraints upon all of us clubs need to provide education & sevices for their members & an association would need to provide the like to clubs.
Both are capable of working but require the efforts of a group of committed individuals (dare I say it that often form a "committee") & "support" from the wider community instead of the sniping that seems to exist.

 

[///]

There is happiness when trade employed folks and enthusiests come together. with some simple clear rules then all will happen. In the case of the IBU's, more than half of the group (including founders) are involved in trade and maybe it is the lack of rules and common sense of the members that keep all in check.

But just skimming thru, it seems a national association is associated with running home brew comps. This does not need to be the case. In the case of the AABC (or which ever accronym is used), i cant take this as representative. there is little in accountability, financial details (is there an ABN yet?) and is a case of 'he who puts up his hand becomes a delegate' and the behavior of some of those delegates has been deplorable.

Anyway, i second the motion with Brissiebrew.

Scotty

 

[BrissyBrew]

I was reading Beer and Brewer's review of ALL the comps the other which called themselfs the national comp, yet again thinking a single national body like the AHA in the US would be nice.

Then I could not help but read the topic about the increase tax on alcohol and think it is times like this we need more than a national comp organising bodies, we need a national body with a membership base (members = voters which is how you get recognised as a stateholder) this way would have an opportunity to voice concern to government as a single voice. If beer is taxed at a higher rate, what effect will this have on small micros, they dont get tax breaks small wine makers do.

 

[peas_and_corn]

And that leads to my second thing - why re-invent the wheel? Fair enough an association that went beyond the current organization might well be desirable, but why re-invent the wheel (to get all meeting speak about it ) couldn't it be set-up as local AHA branch??

Would you really be able to convince Australians to join the Australian branch of an American club? From what I've seen here over the years, many home brewers are quite parochial...

 

[Andyd]

I know down here in Melbourne there has been a very strong aversion demonstrated toward all things american, in particular (and in large probably precipitated by) the BJCP. I have tried to talk a bit of this down, but it's a very strong emotional argument you'd be fighting.

Now other states may not have the same issue. The club scene down here has been established for a long time, and there are traditions being stepped on - that's where a lot of the issues arise.

I'm putting together some discussions down here to figure out where the current organisations are failing to meet expectations, and will be looking for support from clubs and brewers down the track. I'd encourage others in other states to start doing the same. My argument is if there is an existing body and they reckon they do/can deliver to the needs, then let them demonstrate that. Otherwise there may well be room for a newform of organisation.

Given that I would be keen to establish links with AHA, but not be governed by them. Many of their issues are not ours, and vice versa.

Andy