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Australian Amateur Brewing Championship

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dibbz

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I've heard some reports about aabc but it's second hand coming from me, maybe someone can answer these questions;

How many categories did each table judge and were the paired accordingly? I heard there was 10 tables.
Were the beers sorted and organised for each table to ensure there was no palette issues?
How many beers would the average table of judges have judged?
 

kaiserben

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... but when the organisers can't even be bothered to put them in place order speaks volumes.
If beers are judged at multiple tables (which I assume most categories probably would at Nationals) then the scores don't really show a true order, so putting them in order isn't really appropriate.

The top few at each table subsequently get judged off against each other to determine the winner and place-getters.

That's why you'll sometimes see a lower score coming first and a higher score finishing outside the top 3. Different judges at different tables with harsher/easier scoring.
 

beachy

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If beers are judged at multiple tables (which I assume most categories probably would at Nationals) then the scores don't really show a true order, so putting them in order isn't really appropriate.

The top few at each table subsequently get judged off against each other to determine the winner and place-getters.

That's why you'll sometimes see a lower score coming first and a higher score finishing outside the top 3. Different judges at different tables with harsher/easier scoring.
There is no reason to judge across multiple tables when there is a maximum of 21 entries per category.
 

dan@twtr_dan

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So as I break Ocsober out of spite (this is going to cost me $25..) I write the following and apologies in advance to all. Maybe ANHC are watching this thread. I don't want to stoop to this level but I am going to. I don't frequent these forums very often so I'm sorry what I am going to put down. There are other thread topics regarding competitions and one in this forum asking 'have you have entered a home brew competition?', so I write this off topic a little.

Dummy spit.. ::NOW::

I had two entries an IPA and a Cider. The IPA as I taste it now deserved the rating it got. Moving on, but *...

The Cider is no result recorded, did the bottle get picked up with the IPA at the drop off point or what happened throughout to not get served? I don't know and frankly I am not going to waste my time anymore trying to find out. But not being notified that your submission wasn't received/judged is pretty hard one to swallow. It disrespects the process, State representation and those who may have been asking that placed in state comp 4th downward 'WTF, why were there only 10 cider submissions in all of Australia, I could have entered mine?, And before anyone says 'maybe my wife drank it..' it was brewed as a graf and fermented with saison and brettanomyces strains (only joking hunny).

* Back to the IPA and comment about XPA+ hop based / wheat beers needing rebrewing. Yep, especially traveling across the Nullabor Plain to WA where there is some fine weather. If you brewed it again or not, those three days in transit east to west will crush that flavour and aroma anyway in my view. Those are the breaks with an Australian competition and many others probably impacted.. There are approximatley 10 days after finding out if you placed in a State comp to AABC submission date (local state deadline collection) to submit your entries for collection. Lesson learned. I'm gunna have all the beer entry ingredients, all strains of yeast starters at the ready etc etc to make this happen - NOT. Especially in regional Victoria where all you can get is dried yeast, god knows how old the grain is and old oxidised hops with unknown AA%. Only way to do it is to source fresh again from the city, rebrew and then hand deliver it under temperature control. If anyone with a hop forward beer managed to rebrew between the state and country comp then kudos, you deserve all the respect I can give. But IF I did this and then my freshly brewed IPA doesn't make to the table like the cider, I am going to be not pissed but unconscious with this finding.

20+ point spread in results, maybe some granted but as previous mentioned not expected in sound beers. Even if with 21 entries, if split across two tables you would have a baseline beer to standardise the judge scoring between judges, and then the tables 1+2.

The variance to determine a fault e.g. oxidisation as mentioned, I can't see how that amongst all (3?) judges that were writing their comments in confidence prior, then discussing the results. A low score would be totally insulting to those that received it, especially if was a 40+ point prior. Five point spread or seven can't drag a beer that low? It is almost a mercy judge.

Not getting results released in a timely manner has various issues about it. But seriously...

In anticipation of someone shooting a reply - why not get involved? I do. Be it at the minor level to support the weekend at state level, and take the Monday off following as workplace has a zero tolerance of D&A and $10K fine and instant dismissal if positive tested..

Comment 'that's why I don't enter competitions'. This has really got me thinking that too, but if I don't I'm not going to improve as a brewer. Especially this as a sandpit to test recipes and get feedback to maybe one day aspire to be in the industry.

So that is it for me this year. Dummy going back in.

P.S. And as a final, if you would like to sponsor me for Ocsober (not that it makes sense anymore) you can google it and find me as FLYSOBER.

Over and out. Dan
 
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biggo

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yeah mine went down a few points.... but to be honest I was kind of expecting it given the distance travelled / handling etc....
When I saw this pic on the AABC facebook last week I was just hoping mine weren't in the grain sacks in the back of the trailer....
This was the clean up the next morning I guarantee this is not how the beers where transported.
 

dan@twtr_dan

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..
So that is it for me this year. Dummy going back in.
..

Well after calming down and sucking on my dummy, I remembered my old facebook account fired it up and PM'd AABC today. Bottle of cider was not received for the record but the IPA was.
 

Dae Tripper

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Come on, I got the final bottles of submitted brews to taste with the scoresheets, and the Weizen not going to get any better.
 

Codehopper

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Come on, I got the final bottles of submitted brews to taste with the scoresheets, and the Weizen not going to get any better.
That's IF scoresheets are readable at all, as after any comp there is 50% chance I would spend half an hour trying to decipher the scribbles and then give up. Cheers to the other 50% though!
 

Dae Tripper

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That's IF scoresheets are readable at all, as after any comp there is 50% chance I would spend half an hour trying to decipher the scribbles and then give up. Cheers to the other 50% though!
That is half the fun, bit like code breaking. Also good to get a deciphering buddy :cheers:
 

biggo

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I'm fully expecting the old, "we all have day jobs you know answer", but I'll ask anyway given that it's been 3 weeks.
Any updates on how the score sheets are coming along?
They are Being scanned and sorted I expect by the end of the week
 

MHB

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I judge in comps whenever I can, one point I would like to make.
I'm judging the beer in front of me, in the glass, on that day!
I have also entered enough competitions to know the frustration that comes with a score that I think doesn't reflect the beer I entered.
But as a judge, I score that beer in that glass for what it is, not what the brewer thinks it should be,

Every comp I have judged in had a calibration beer and the judges had to agree on each beer within 5 points, at the state (NSW) comp this year I had to resort to calling in the head steward a couple of times. I'm fully aware that we all taste things differently, I know I'm better at some flavours than at others, that it is possible for judges to interpret the style descriptions differently - the point being to try to judge fairly.

Ok maybe judging isn't all it could be, but if you want better judges become one, study up on beer tasting, sit the exam, get involved in local comps - if there aren't any - join a club (start one) organise a comp, even just get some fellow brewers together and learn to taste critically. Its a pretty steep learning curve.
I can also tell you from experience, judging has never been better, I well remember when it was totally subjective, with no style guides, no training... Now that was something worth whinging about, and working to change.
Mark
 

Brewman_

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I judge in comps whenever I can, one point I would like to make.
I'm judging the beer in front of me, in the glass, on that day!
I have also entered enough competitions to know the frustration that comes with a score that I think doesn't reflect the beer I entered.
But as a judge, I score that beer in that glass for what it is, not what the brewer thinks it should be,

Every comp I have judged in had a calibration beer and the judges had to agree on each beer within 5 points, at the state (NSW) comp this year I had to resort to calling in the head steward a couple of times. I'm fully aware that we all taste things differently, I know I'm better at some flavours than at others, that it is possible for judges to interpret the style descriptions differently - the point being to try to judge fairly.

Ok maybe judging isn't all it could be, but if you want better judges become one, study up on beer tasting, sit the exam, get involved in local comps - if there aren't any - join a club (start one) organise a comp, even just get some fellow brewers together and learn to taste critically. Its a pretty steep learning curve.
I can also tell you from experience, judging has never been better, I well remember when it was totally subjective, with no style guides, no training... Now that was something worth whinging about, and working to change.
Mark
Mark and I had this conversation over a cup of coffee last week.

One thing I know for sure having been involved in quite a few competitions in various roles is that the judges, organisers and stewards do their best, and they do a hell of a lot of work. That I could never question.
Further they dedicate their time and in the case of interstate commitments a fair bit of their own cash to do it.

Do I always agree with the judges myself - no. Mostly I do. But I put myself in their seat and say, so what were they thinking? Remember they are blind judging. Then I taste my beer and I take the feed back as one input into the critique, and you know it is unbiased.

I've judged lots of beers myself and I hope I get it pretty right and provide feedback that is helpful.

I take MHB comment that judging has never been better. On that line, a bunch Newcastle guys have been studying their judging certifications, so they will be experienced and qualified BJCP judges. That's what clubs do and that improves judging quality.

My 2c

If you can, get involved.
 
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