Australian Amateur Brewing Championship

[browndog]

Hi everyone,

Not wanting to sound like sour grapes, I am merely looking for opinion, how does a beer go from 1st with 43.5 as an average of two judges in the QABC with comments like

"Just finished judging strong lagers and farmhouse ales. Awesome line-up, congratulations on all entries, there were some awesome beers! standard seemed to be well up on last years! (Who brewed the top scoring saison? it was exceptional!) "


to 91 as the sum of 3 judges (average of 30 per judge) in the AABC :unsure: ?

Is this a regional difference? Any input for next year would be appreciated.

Cheers
Starkesbier

Because HB comps are a mugs game Starkie

cheers

Browndog

 

[Bribie G]

As mentioned above, a lot can happen to a beer in a month. My stout in the Brisbane Stout mini comp in June (??) was judged 'mouth puckeringly bad' but won a third place in the BABBs comp and ended up a tasty drop after a couple of months. The mild that took out first in the low alc in QABC still got fifth place in the Nats but I knew in my heart of hearts that it was just 'over the hill'. I had brewed another one but it turned out disappointing so I had no choice but to put the 'old' bottle in the Nats. I'll be more on the ball next year.
It was my own lazy fault because I had let myself run out of Carafa so I subbed roast barley, pitched the wort onto a yeastcake from a bitter..... like I PMd someone "Into detention and write 500 lines: I will not do mad experiments three weeks before a competition, I will not do mad experiments......." :lol: :lol:

 

[samhighley]

Not wanting to sound like sour grapes, I am merely looking for opinion, how does a beer go from 1st with 43.5 as an average of two judges in the QABC

As others have stated, it's just the way things go sometimes. My two beers that qualified inverted between the ACT qualifiers and the nationals:

Sam Highley Kolsch 96.0
Sam Highley Dusseldorfer Altbier 120.0

Sam Highley Kolsch 115.5 ACT
Sam Highley Dusseldorfer Altbier 103 ACT

Weird! I expected the Kolsch to get smashed at the AABC as it was the lowest scoring qualifier from the ACT comp to go through, and it'd be 3-4 weeks older.

 

[Fatgodzilla]

Because HB comps are a mugs game Starkie

cheers

Browndog

Cynically correct BD but I wouldn't want to discourage a brewer from entering competitions. Gambling also is a mugs game but a lot of people get their employment and pleasure from it. Following the Dragons is for mugs too, but we still do it !

Different people aim for different outcomes when entering beers in competitions. I entered my first competitions this year, the same beer scored 125.5 at state level and 100 in the nationals. Different judges. I reckon the beer was a good one anyway, maybe the national judges just didn't like that style as much as the state judges. I'll await the tasting notes from both and decide if I lost points for a problem I can correct.

Better luck next time to all my fellow losers ! :icon_cheers:

 

[Bribie G]

Yes, just thinking about the UK modern Summer ale I put in,



In the State it got the equivalent of 114, in the Nats it got 88. It was brewed to BJCP guidelines 'can be very pale yellow' etc, and showed a lot of background bitterness from Target hops.
In the State comp, it no doubt struck the judges on the day as a novel and adventurous interpretation of English bitter however in the Nats I'm looking forward to the scoresheets... probably something along the lines of "WTF is this stuff supposed to be :huh: "

:lol: :lol:

 

[starkesbier]

Thank for all the input.

I guess I'll wait for the judges feedback and have another crack next year :icon_cheers: .

 

[bconnery]

Yes, just thinking about the UK modern Summer ale I put in,

View attachment 32376

In the State it got the equivalent of 144, in the Nats it got 88. It was brewed to BJCP guidelines 'can be very pale yellow' etc, and showed a lot of background bitterness from Target hops.
In the State comp, it no doubt struck the judges on the day as a novel and adventurous interpretation of English bitter however in the Nats I'm looking forward to the scoresheets... probably something along the lines of "WTF is this stuff supposed to be :huh: "

:lol: :lol:

But did you brew it to BJCP or AABC guidelines? Remembering that they aren't the same in all areas, particularly when it comes to English beers...

 

[Fatgodzilla]

I like the jugs and glasses you Qlders use at your state champions BG !


And without sounding too patronising or demeaning, the larger number of well credentialled interstate judges at national level should mean a better standard of judging than at state level. It still doesn't eliminate judges bias or style preference, but I reckon it does mean your beer does get a fair judging.

 

[Bribie G]

But did you brew it to BJCP or AABC guidelines? Remembering that they aren't the same in all areas, particularly when it comes to English beers...

Yes that could be a trap for new players. More groundwork next year, for sure. As you say, low alc in the State was >3.5% ABV, low alc in the Nats as from this year is >4.0% ABV - that's just one example.

 

[Maple]

Yes that could be a trap for new players. More groundwork next year, for sure. As you say, low alc in the State was >3.5% ABV, low alc in the Nats as from this year is >4.0% ABV - that's just one example.

Wouldn't state level and Nats both be judged on AABC guidlines? I'm pretty sure VICBrew was AABC and not BJCP.

 

[ausdb]

Wouldn't state level and Nats both be judged on AABC guidlines? I'm pretty sure VICBrew was AABC and not BJCP.

It depends on each state, WA was BJCP

 

[Andyd]

The styleguides used for Nats are indeed AABA (we used BJCP scoresheets, which may cause some confusion).

I'm keen to see some form of uniformity between the Nationals and state competitions, to make sure that (a) everyone's getting there via the same criteria; and (B) that everyone entering has the same expectations with respect to the way their beers are evaluated.

Cheers!

 

[jayse]

Welldone everyone, I had a wonderull few days and don't know where to start when it comes to thanking everyone I better not start naming names incase I miss someone or get names wrong but everyone knows who they are from the organisers and helpers to the judges, stewards, clubs, visitors , venues, hosts and so forth.
I did start posting a individual thanks but halfway through it was starting to read like a novel already.

I see my antics have already been mentioned but since every other state is well presented and us from S.A had only the three of us i thought I best make enough noise to make up for it :lol: there is that plus I was having more fun than a pig in ****.


I don't think anyone should read too much into how beers at state level seem to get opposite results at the aabc and just accept that it happens. I'd almost agree in the comment it is a mugs game to a degree.

I have to say the standard of beer I was expecting to be awesome but the standard was even above my expectations in most cases the beers were sublime.

The bar is well and truelly been set now for nationals starting last year with this not just being the judging of the nats but it is also the premier home brewing event.

 

[Paul H]

Welldone everyone, I had a wonderull few days and don't know where to start when it comes to thanking everyone I better not start naming names incase I miss someone or get names wrong but everyone knows who they are from the organisers and helpers to the judges, stewards, clubs, visitors , venues, hosts and so forth.
I did start posting a individual thanks but halfway through it was starting to read like a novel already.

I see my antics have already been mentioned but since every other state is well presented and us from S.A had only the three of us i thought I best make enough noise to make up for it :lol: there is that plus I was having more fun than a pig in ****.


I don't think anyone should read too much into how beers at state level seem to get opposite results at the aabc and just accept that it happens. I'd almost agree in the comment it is a mugs game to a degree.

I have to say the standard of beer I was expecting to be awesome but the standard was even above my expectations in most cases the beers were sublime.

The bar is well and truelly been set now for nationals starting last year with this not just being the judging of the nats but it is also the premier home brewing event.

It was great meeting you too motherf%$ker :beerbang:

Cheers

Paul

 

[Ross]

Had a great time... Fantastically run event - Well done Canberra....See you all in Melbourne next year


The serious side



The fun side.... Stillscottish on the pipes, Jayse doing what Jayse does




Cheers Ross

 

[churchy]

Only been AG brewing for a year and two top ten entries from first time entering the competition, can't complain.Thanks to the judges and sponsers.





Andrew

 

[kook]

It depends on each state, WA was BJCP

WA was AABC not BJCP

 

[matho]

i think and i could be wrong but the judge's aren't going to give a prefect score so the top is going to be 130'ish then all the other beers have to fit under that so no doubt that the best beer got the top then the rest just fell in order.

just a drunken thought :icon_cheers:

cheer's matho

 

[dr K]

There should be no cofusion about catergories and styles.
Thee AABC comp runs on the guidlines developed by the AABC.The AABC consists of two delegates from each State or Territory that the AABC accepts as part of the AABC. these delegates should communicate to the constituents of their State or Territory what those guidlines are, but regardless, the guidlines are up on the aabc website so any organisers wanting entry for their club or state should at a minimum make themselves familiar with the rules, styles and categories.
One's personal opine to catergorisation of styles (say BJCP vs AABC) ought not be bought to entry, for surely entry or otherwise is dependant on the organisers and not the possible entrants.
K

 

[Andyd]

i think and i could be wrong but the judge's aren't going to give a prefect score so the top is going to be 130'ish then all the other beers have to fit under that so no doubt that the best beer got the top then the rest just fell in order.

just a drunken thought :icon_cheers:

cheer's matho

[random stream of consciousness follows...]

Whilst not always the case, most judges these days try to judge a beer on it's own merits, and if it's a great beer then it gets the mark it deserves.

Ross Mitchell did a particularly good job as Head Judge this year, stating at the commencement of each flight that people should not be afraid of giving a good beer a score in the 40's. This really set the scene, and we did see quite a few beers rate in that range - as you might expect in a second tier competition.

My bug-bear when it comes to judging is when judges won't give the first beers in a flight a high mark, even if they do deserve it. The thought proces is that something better might come along, in which case they have nowhere to go score-wise. I disagree. Judges really should be aiming to be able to identify and grade a great beer wherever it might appear in a flight. Anything else just introduces a level of subjectivity into the process, and people have gone to considerable effort over the years to create a set of styleguides that allows judging on an objective basis to take place.

Overall the standard of judging is increasing, which is really good to see since the hobby is also increasing. I know we had record numbers this year in Victoria, and other states had large numbers of entries too. It's a great sign for the hobby, and this years event only emphasised that we really are a brewing community.

Andy

 

[ausdb]

WA was AABC not BJCP

Sorry Kook got confused seeing all the BJCP judging sheets, so WA was the same as the Nationals maybe thats why we did so well

 

[kook]

Sorry Kook got confused seeing all the BJCP judging sheets, so WA was the same as the Nationals maybe thats why we did so well

I can see how - we used a lot of BJCP material on the day such as BJCP judging guides, BJCP judge feedback forms etc.

The style guidelines used (and referenced on the website and entry pack) were AABC (2009 revision). These were also available to the judges printed on the day.

The score sheets were BJCP sheets. I personally think that this is a better laid out score sheet with more room for the judge to provide feedback. The ones we used 2007/2008 are good, but don't have quite as much room on them for notes, nor as complex descriptors.

 

[Stagger]

Just a quick update,
After a very successful 2009 AABC I have had to do some real work to catch-up. I will be sending the remainder of the trophies out hopefully next week, so hang tight.

I would like to send a warm thank you to all that attended the event in Canberra and hope you all had a great time (especially to the WA crew who made a extra effort).

See you all in Melbourne next year.

Cheers & Beers

Craig

 

[Brauhaus007]

Well done to everyone involved from the state & nationals. I entered the SABSOSA in 2007 with some kits & bits scored a second with a FES. Then got more into brewing broke the budget and bought a Mash Pilot System from Beerbelly. Did`nt enter any comps in 2008, enterd 6beers in 2009 SABSOSA for 2 first & 2second places. Entered those in the AABC scored 2 firsts a 4th & a 6th place. So I am as happy as a pig in s**t. I khow there are always some annomolies whith judgung but the feedback really helps. So thanks again to everyone involved :beer:


Now drinking
BelgianStrong Ale 7.5%
A.P.A 5.2%
I.P.A 7.2%
E.S.B 5.7%
Old Strong Ale 6.8%
F.E.S 6.0%

 

[megs80]

Hey all,

Great works to the guys in Canberra and to the winning brewers.

Can anyone tell me when I should expect my score sheets in the mail. There was 44.5 points difference in my state score and nationals score. I need to know what went wrong.

Cheers

 

[dj1984]

still waiting for mine too.

 

[dr K]

megs80, and other who quite rightly express concerns at score variations.
chances are nothing went wrong, the overall standard of judging in australia is far higher now than it was say 6 years ago, and the standard of judges at the recent AABC was possibly the highest ever assembled in Australia.
Judges are not gods, nor brewers prodigies.
Let us take take the case of the perfect machine, the electronic judge that has no fatigue and an equally perfect pallete and nose.
Our machine scores a beer at 35, the two other judges are equal at 30, all within range and a score of 95.
Equally the other two may have hit 40, again within range but the score is now 115.
Now at the Nationals the same beer is being judged, but without our machine, I will however intoduce the rider that the national judges were able to be within 5 points of the perfect machines score, they are, like the beers entered, pre-qualfied.
Regardless, we now have a range of 30 points, and that is without even considering bottle variations, serving variations or a rouge judge.
To have got to the Nats at all is a huge thing, and something to be justisfiably proud about, is a runner in the Melbourne Cup to be diminished by it's failure to win,or even place, perhaps, but it ran, and at the starters call had an equal chance.

k

 

[browndog]

megs80, and other who quite rightly express concerns at score variations.
chances are nothing went wrong, the overall standard of judging in australia is far higher now than it was say 6 years ago, and the standard of judges at the recent AABC was possibly the highest ever assembled in Australia.
Judges are not gods, nor brewers prodigies.
Let us take take the case of the perfect machine, the electronic judge that has no fatigue and an equally perfect pallete and nose.
Our machine scores a beer at 35, the two other judges are equal at 30, all within range and a score of 95.
Equally the other two may have hit 40, again within range but the score is now 115.
Now at the Nationals the same beer is being judged, but without our machine, I will however intoduce the rider that the national judges were able to be within 5 points of the perfect machines score, they are, like the beers entered, pre-qualfied.
Regardless, we now have a range of 30 points, and that is without even considering bottle variations, serving variations or a rouge judge.
To have got to the Nats at all is a huge thing, and something to be justisfiably proud about, is a runner in the Melbourne Cup to be diminished by it's failure to win,or even place, perhaps, but it ran, and at the starters call had an equal chance.

k

Nice analogy there Dr K, I was happy to be a runner.

cheers

Browndog

 

[Bribie G]

Yes great to be in the middle of the field with one of my brews and fifth 'place' with another. We won't even mention the third beer h34r: You don't expect to win the London Marathon at your first attempt unless you are a total dreamer :icon_cheers:

 

[jayse]

44.5 points is quite large that likely would be there was a cockroach in that perticular bottle :unsure:
Pulling cockroach legs out of your teeth is never good when judging <_<