Aussie Lager - Questions

[vaanderal]

Hi guys,

Just recently acquired myself a keg system. In honor of that fact i want to put down a brew that all of my mates will like. Unfortunately they are all big on their megaswill, so i am looking to brew something that they will enjoy, with a small twist that i will enjoy.

The recipe i have got so far is pretty simple:

4kg aussie pale malt
500g cooked rice
25g Pride of ringwood at start of boil
saflager s-23

I am looking to put a little hoppy twist on it. Nothing overpowering but just a slight hint of aroma with a bit of flavour coming through. I was going to add about 5g nelson sauvin at flameout to add that little bit of aroma (and keep with the ANZAC theme!)

What do you guys think?

Also, just a question RE temperature control. I have a spare fridge, but unfortunately cannot afford the temperature control. Would i be best to stick it in the fridge with some ice packs in there to try and keep the temperature down and steady?

Thanks,

Ben

 

[dago001]

Hi Ben
Personally, I reckon 25g of Por will be a bit bitter for an Aussie lager.
I think most Aussie lager are around 15 - 20 IBU, and yours comes in at 26 after putting your recipe in Brewmate. Assuming your brewing 23 litres, 17 grams of PoR will give you around 18 IBU. Also if you are after an Aussie style, a little crystal malt helps, but theres nothing wrong with what you have for base malts now. Brewed plenty of beers exactly the same. Drop the bitterness back to about 18 and your mates won't go home.
Never tried Nelson in a lager, but if thats what you want, wack it in. I slowly worked my mates into drinking more hoppy beers, but at the end of the day, I brew to suit myself. If they don't like it, tough *******. I don't like my lagers with a twist though - it is a lager - it is what it is. Don't ask for a slice of lemon at my house unless you are making lemonade.
You could try running the fridge on a timer. KMart are selling them for $6.00. Got one, but haven't tried it yet.
Cheers
LagerBomb

 

[Bribie G]

For that real Ozzy taste, I'd use Wyeast Danish Lager and ferment at 14 for about 4 days then let it drift up to around 17 till done. It's related to the Fosters B yeast, apparently. And use some Saaz or Hersbrucker as late hopping to give a similar effect to Hahn or Cascade Premium.

Re the spare fridge, if you use it as a "dead fridge" and have some freezer space available, then freeze yourself down some 2L soft drink bottles of water and swap 2 of them in a couple of times a day. This will definitely keep the brew in the mid teens. I did this for a year till I got some kosher fermenting fridges and it worked just fine. If you want to be a real slave to the brew then maybe also run the fridge uncontrolled for a couple of hours in the afternoon or hottest part of its day, then switch off.

 

[Nick JD]

If you can't keep S23 below 14C then use US05 - you'll get more of a "lager" flavour from US05 at 20C than you will with S23 at 17C (fruity as all hell).

I'd not put the Nelson in there. Save it for a beer where it shines. The "Styles" exist for a reason - sure you can mix them up and do something different - but if you want your megaswill mates to be happy with your beer, make them a megaswill and prove to them that you can make beer as good as a brewery ... then introduce them to something with flavour.

Megaswill drinkers are so stupid that a great APA might be seen as a failure - because you haven't made VB. They really are that thick.

 

[bignath]

Hi guys,

Just recently acquired myself a keg system. In honor of that fact i want to put down a brew that all of my mates will like. Unfortunately they are all big on their megaswill, so i am looking to brew something that they will enjoy, with a small twist that i will enjoy.

The recipe i have got so far is pretty simple:

4kg aussie pale malt
500g cooked rice
25g Pride of ringwood at start of boil
saflager s-23

I am looking to put a little hoppy twist on it. Nothing overpowering but just a slight hint of aroma with a bit of flavour coming through. I was going to add about 5g nelson sauvin at flameout to add that little bit of aroma (and keep with the ANZAC theme!)

What do you guys think?

Also, just a question RE temperature control. I have a spare fridge, but unfortunately cannot afford the temperature control. Would i be best to stick it in the fridge with some ice packs in there to try and keep the temperature down and steady?

Thanks,

Ben

Recipie in general looks good. Id make the following changes though...

If you dont have temp control, id use a different yeast. Give s189 a try for amtruemlager yeast that can work cleanly at 19degrees. Or alternatively, use US-05 which is an ale yeast but very neutral and does the 'fake lager' thing very well.

Also,,im a huge nelson sauvin fan but i wouldnt,put it in a lager necessarily (although there is avery tasty commercial lager that uses it brilliantly well). To be perfectly honest id do a small pride of ringwood addition if you,want just a bit more aroma. It may not be what you necessairly want to drink, but if its more for your mates then they'll probably drain the keg.
Other than that, maybe scale the bittering addition back to 20g, and 5-10g flameout for chill version, or cube hop for no chill version.

Itll make a decent mega killer.

EDIT: small buttons, big ******* fingers, cant spell for ****.....

 

[ekul]

have you thought about using coopers yeast? CPA is fairly palatable to megaswill drinkers, and because it is an ale its fermented at higher temps...

 

[vaanderal]

Ok so I will scale back the PoR to 17g at the start of the boil.

If I do use us-05, should I still try and keep the fermentation temp in the mid teens? Or is that too low for this yeast?

I will save the Nelson's for my next brew I think.

 

[bignath]

Ok so I will scale back the PoR to 17g at the start of the boil.

If I do use us-05, should I still try and keep the fermentation temp in the mid teens? Or is that too low for this yeast?

I will save the Nelson's for my next brew I think.

US05 loves 18 deg. Will work well at 16, will also,work well at 20. I reckon 18 is pretty much the sweet spot.

 

[black_labb]

have you thought about using coopers yeast? CPA is fairly palatable to megaswill drinkers, and because it is an ale its fermented at higher temps...

I second the idea of doing an easily accessible ale. Quite frankly I don't see the point in putting all that much effort into a beer that you won't really enjoy yourself. Something like a CPA would work well, maybe drop the bitterness a touch if you want to please their palates.

 

[Nevalicious]

Definitely go the CPA yeast. Yes, its not a lager, but have a search around here for Andrew QLD's CPA clone and you'll find its a real winner. I've made it heaps of times and it always pleases... Except the time I did a double batch for the winter case swap and didn't dilute into the fermenter <_<

Piece of piss to brew and ferment (can get away with varying ferment temps if need be (unlike a lager, which CAN be a little more temperamental)) and is guaranteed to be a winner with mates!

 

[Batz]

I do an Aussie lager similar to XXXX Gold, I played around with this recipe for years and tried all the yeasts listed above and found S186 to produce the results I was after.
As far as hops go I have found Cluster better than POR for this style (XXXX Gold), if your interested I can send you the recipe.


Good luck with it, it really not as easy as some would believe to turn out a Aussie mega swill that swill drinkers like.



Batz

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

US05 loves 18 deg. Will work well at 16, will also,work well at 20. I reckon 18 is pretty much the sweet spot.

I've had US-05 down to 14 degrees (in winter) for my APA.

It's seriously neutral and really lets the malt and hops shine through at this temp.

Goomba

 

[jacknohe]

I've had US-05 down to 14 degrees (in winter) for my APA.

It's seriously neutral and really lets the malt and hops shine through at this temp.

Goomba

+1

From personal experience, if you don't have solid control of the temperature, don't risk it with a Lager yeast. Use US-05 as its far more forgiving with a little fluctuation than a Lager yeast and it also cleans up quicker. Given the reduced level of malt and hop complexity you are planning, US-05 will be perfect to dazzle your mega-swill friends with.

Besides, they wouldn't know the difference between an Ale or Lager yeast. :lol:

 

[Jazzafish]

I know the drill... I have been brewing for my dad and some of his mates lately. They drink Tooheys extra dry mainly, but go for a squires when they feel frisky. So I brew a beer for them that is between a TED and JSGA that I shamelessly enjoy on a really hot day. So I brew a 95% Pilsner malt 5% sugar beer at 1.042 bittered to 18IBU. I also late hop it with amarillo at ~0.8grams per litre.

Looking at your recipe I see some issues with balance. I'll use VB as a guide. This is measured in a lab to be 18IBU. I calculate 25g of 9% alpha acid POR hops to be ~ 35 IBU when boiled for 60mins in 22L of 1.042 gravity wort. So you need to halve this addition if you want around 18IBU if you want it balanced in a simular way.

With the mash I'll use VB as a guide again. I can't remember the final gravity of VB, but lets assume it is 1.007 (+/- 0.002) with a 4.65abv. Commercially they brew to high gravity and tweak it later... but if they brewed to gravity, based on the estimated final gravity and abv, I'd target an OG of 1.040 to 1.044 using Aussie pilsner malt and some sugar. But I won't stop you using rice.

Regarding the nelson late hops, go for it! I'd be selfish and add a couple of grams per litre... but keeping on task, 5g won't really add much and borderline being unnoticable. Try 10 to 15g at flameout and reassess aroma in fermenter. Then dry hop if needed.

For my version of the same idea, I use US05 ale yeast over lager yeast. This is a very neutral yeast that suits many mainstream lager styles and quite frankly, your mates won't know the difference. Lagers take a lot more time and effort to make, so personally I only commit my time and brew gear to a pretty special lager recipe. That said, fermentation temperature control is really important in a beer like this. There is no where for any ferment flavours to hide in such a small beer. So I'd try a couple of things with your fridge until you put enough cash away to get a controller.

1) Set the fridge to the warmest setting on the thermostat and measure the temp. Mine is 10 to 12*C so has become a lager fridge. If you have the time to do a lager and your fridge is the same, brew a lager, pitching 2 packets of 34/70.
2) Freeze some 3 litre milk bottles and add them as needed to your fridge to maintain 18*C. Figure out how much you need. Then if you can be bothered to freeze and replace the ice as needed, brew an ale!

 

[vaanderal]

Cheers for all the great information guys! I'll pop down to the LHBS on the weekend and pick up a packet of US-05.

Will the US-05 still benefit from a lagering period? Or should i just treat it as i would a normal ale?

Also, has anyone had any experience with using PoR late in the boil?

 

[Nick JD]

Also, has anyone had any experience with using PoR late in the boil?

Yes, I advise against it. There's a reason every beer in Australia that uses POR doesn't use it late.

Also, using US05 in hoppy ales makes it seem neutral - in bland lagers it leaves quite a bit of sweetness/diacetyl - which kinda fits an Aussie Lager anyway. I'd up the hops a few IBUs (from 18) to compensate for this. 25 is a nice balance.

I have a Aussie Lager on tap at the mo. It's half Wey Pils, half BB Ale, 100g BB Caramalt, Cluster at 60 min to 25 IBUs ... and US05. It's better than XXXX, by far.

Also, don't mash too high (<64C is appropriate).

 

[mckenry]

Cheers for all the great information guys! I'll pop down to the LHBS on the weekend and pick up a packet of US-05.

Will the US-05 still benefit from a lagering period? Or should i just treat it as i would a normal ale?

Also, has anyone had any experience with using PoR late in the boil?

It seems PoR is a love it or hate it hop. I used it late once. Once. Tasted dirty, a bit like river water. Could have been a bad brew, or old hops, it was a long time ago and have learnt more about handling ingredients since then. Never tried it again though, as I'm pretty sure it was PoR late that gave it that taste.

 

[jacknohe]

It seems PoR is a love it or hate it hop. I used it late once. Once. Tasted dirty, a bit like river water. Could have been a bad brew, or old hops, it was a long time ago and have learnt more about handling ingredients since then. Never tried it again though, as I'm pretty sure it was PoR late that gave it that taste.

Ha Ha, I've had the same experience. There are some things in life you only do once...

 

[super_simian]

Given the replies on this and other threads about creating an Aussie "Lager" (along VB/XXXX lines) but using US05 (or 1056 I guess) perhaps we need to delineate an Aussie "Cream Ale" style! Low bitterness, rice/sugar adjunct, and POR or Cluster. Any input?

 

[black_labb]

Also, has anyone had any experience with using PoR late in the boil?

I've used it a couple times. Once was a maltier CPA which turned out very well. The hops gave a very nice spicy flavour, though they were fresh flowers. The other time was everything I had on hadn IPA and I threw about 30g of pellets in as a cube hop (as well as alot of fuggles and citra). This turned out very well as well but I'm not sure what could be attributed to the POR in there.

Its possible that POR degrade quickly which explains some people's bad experience with them. I'm looking to do an all POR IPA which should give me a good idea as to what the situation is.