As if I needed another reason to not buy C.U.B. products.

[Zorco]

Contractors are workers too.

Not according to accountants

 

[klangers]

Another large brewery did a similar thing, but back in the 90's.

Then it was because the whole place was basically held by the balls by the union, and you had greasers (back when auto-greasers weren't standard issue) walking around squirting grease into every single grease nipple they could see, even ones not connected to anything. Numerous strikes, literal fights between electrical and mechanical trades and generally a whole heap of money was being paid for piss-poor work. The grease monkey earned double what a professional engineer did, and had their feet up half the time. That's not right, either.

I'd say there's more to it than what that article mentions.

It's not an ideal situation at all, and I don't agree with it. I'm a firm believer in keeping core competencies in-house. If your company makes beer, then a core competency would certainly be having well-maintained equipment. This relies on happy, satisfied, hard-working maintenance and engineering staff. Currently, my experience across quite a number of different organisations in this industry shows that the trend is to outsource maintenance whilst swelling the size of the marketing and advertising departments. Wrong way around in my opinion, but hey, I'm biased.

EDIT: Also, the beer market is cyclical. Up to 50% more production happens in the lead up to peak (typically from November to Jan). Contract maintenance staff gives the brewery the option to match their maintenance staff to actual machinery run time, so they're not over-resourced in low season.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Not according to accountants

True that

a contractor is just another bill/invoice to an accountant

 

[TheWiggman]

Engineering: save $100k. Undertake equipment analysis and determine greatest losses or simple opportunity. Investigate alternative solution. Justify IRR or payback period, revise project based in feedback and resubmit. Submit change management and gain approval. Implement concept, change related PM, drawings, work order frequency etc. and roll out to maintenance system. Wait 12 months to determine actual savings.
HR: reduce employee numbers or pay rates. Immediate return.
No wonder executives love it.

 

[klangers]

Engineering: save $100k. Undertake equipment analysis and determine greatest losses or simple opportunity. Investigate alternative solution. Justify IRR or payback period, revise project based in feedback and resubmit. Submit change management and gain approval. Implement concept, change related PM, drawings, work order frequency etc. and roll out to maintenance system. Wait 12 months to determine actual savings.
HR: reduce employee numbers or pay rates. Immediate return.
No wonder executives love it.

Nail. Head.

Firing people is the easy way out.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

A contracting company employs the workers some will be on the books others will be subcontractors it is whatever suits the individual, as has been pointed out if a contract comes up for renewal and is tendered for and won by another company obviously the winning company will head hunt the previous contract holders employees.
I wouldn't believe a word the union says, and I am sure if a company was given back the right to hire and fire there would be no need for contract companies to be brought in to supply labour for routine maintenance work, if someones a slack arse get rid of them.

 

[Brownsworthy]

You can underline workers all you want but please enlighten me as to how you interpret that I said contractors aren't workers.

 

[MastersBrewery]

On the maintenance cleaning side, not just manufacturing, but offices, court houses, shops etc. I've seen the trend of contractors then 'sub contracting' at well bellow what the macca's drive through chick is getting. The cleaning of these establishments doesn't change seasonally, the contracts as I see it, are used purely to distance the bussiness from underpaying workers. You'd ask why would people work for shit money like that. Some have no skills, some can no longer work in their chosen profession, others injured or disabled. A couple that I won't name(one a government contract) were paying $15 an hour gross, and wanted you to provide your own abn. Contracting seriously needs a governing body to root out this kind of exploitation.

 

[arctic78]

we should take a look at how the Germans do it. By law 50% of the board of the company has to be employees ( actual workers )
and they seem to be very happy on all sides . They also have a higher permanent employee base which has more benefits for all involved . They have very strong unions also Which if we did not have a lot of people I think would change their opinion on them.
We have a lot because of unions . look up what has been gained for workers rights. A lot of things people take for granted but were hard fought for by unions for better ( basic human ) rights.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Pretty simple to see why companies want " Contractors "

The Company say " We will pay you $x to do the job ", pls supply your ABN etc..

The contractor takes on the job for $x, even if it is below what it costs. It is the up to the Contractor to pay the award wage to the employee, and if it is yourself then you dont have a choice.

Contracting is a cheap way to save money and responsibility. The company is not responsible for what the Contractor pays its employee's and really doesnt give a shit either

Its no different to getting a sparky to wire in a new 15A outlet . You offer $100 to do the job, someone will take it on. Not your responsibility how much the sparky gets paid at the end of the day

Austar/Foxtell are a classic. They pay about $100 to contractors per dish install. They dont give a shit how long it takes you or what it costs you, you take the job on for $100 and thats all you get. This is why you always see adds for Austar/Foxtel installers, no one will do the jobs for that money, except the odd person. Electricians wont go anywhere near them. And then you get the associated problems of dodgy installs etc...

 

[sp0rk]

Austar/Foxtell are a classic. They pay about $100 to contractors per dish install. They dont give a shit how long it takes you or what it costs you, you take the job on for $100 and thats all you get. This is why you always see adds for Austar/Foxtel installers, no one will do the jobs for that money, except the odd person. Electricians wont go anywhere near them. And then you get the associated problems of dodgy installs etc...

This is exactly what happened with the NBN installs
Brownfields rollout was contracted to various companies, who then subcontracted to various smaller companies or out of work sparkies and even home hifi installers
They were going around, quickly looking over the fibre drop, if there was a lot of work to pull/push the fibre through to your house, you just got shoved to the back of the queue for someone else to do
If it was a quick job, they'd bang it through as quick as possible then piss off, a lot of the time not even asking exactly where you wanted the network equipment installed.

 

[pcmfisher]

It would be interesting to know how much these contractors were getting.
I can't imagine it would be $40k a year.

I suspect it would have been comparatively big.
Big money contracts don't last forever.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

It would be interesting to know how much these contractors were getting.

About the same as a train driver.....

 

[Camo6]

And where exactly does it say that is now what is being offered?

When did I say that was what they were getting?
However, according to reports, the offered rates were around award rate. Which would correlate with the figures they're claiming if the former sparkies were on eba rates. Which are still less than most white collar salaries. I can't be fucked with this debate. Let's just bring in thousands of 457's willing to work for award so we can drive labour rates down and make more money for our shareholders.

 

[MastersBrewery]

When did I say that was what they were getting?
However, according to reports, the offered rates were around award rate. Which would correlate with the figures they're claiming if the former sparkies were on eba rates. Which are still less than most white collar salaries. I can't be fucked with this debate. Let's just bring in thousands of 457's willing to work for LESS THAN award so we can drive labour rates down and make more money for our shareholders.

Fixed

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

When did I say that was what they were getting?
However, according to reports, the offered rates were around award rate. Which would correlate with the figures they're claiming if the former sparkies were on eba rates. Which are still less than most white collar salaries. I can't be fucked with this debate. Let's just bring in thousands of 457's willing to work for award so we can drive labour rates down and make more money for our shareholders.

Ahmen to that brother


Cant have the shareholders going without can we

 

[Killer Brew]

When did I say that was what they were getting?
However, according to reports, the offered rates were around award rate. Which would correlate with the figures they're claiming if the former sparkies were on eba rates. Which are still less than most white collar salaries. I can't be fucked with this debate. Let's just bring in thousands of 457's willing to work for award so we can drive labour rates down and make more money for our shareholders.

Fairly sure the average white collar isn't earning +$150k p.a. but yeah, hey, **** everyone who isn't wearing King Gee and down in the ditches. No need to get hysterical

 

[SBOB]

Its no different to getting a sparky to wire in a new 15A outlet . You offer $100 to do the job, someone will take it on. Not your responsibility how much the sparky gets paid at the end of the day

or, if you were chasing an electrician a few years ago when there were pretty major trade shortages.
If you absolutely had to have that power point installed, then I'm sure you would have paid the $500 that electrician said he would charge to get it done right?

But lets say you need one installed today, and there are plenty of electricians available. Would you still call up that same electrician as last time and pay him $500? despite the fact that the current perfectly acceptable rate for installed that power point is now $200?


(again, mostly devils advocate reasoning here)

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Cant have the shareholders going without can we

If we didn't have share holders we wouldn't have industry.

 

[Brownsworthy]

I'd get several quotes first and I wouldn't necessarily go with the cheapest. Of course price plays a part but I would go with who turns up when they say they will, presents well, has good communication skills etc.

By the way SBOB you play a great devils advocate like my dad use to say you need to look at both sides even if you don't agree it's always best to argue both to get the best outcome.