As if I needed another reason to not buy C.U.B. products.

[Zorco]

You're very likeable SBOB. Excellent view and accurate from my experience.

Contractors often feel disadvantaged at contract end when it has been a long engagement. Lots of people live to the limit of their income.

Others recognise the higher rates and end up working their financial year with months off. Again... Better circumstances depending on your point of view.

 

[Killer Brew]

The staff were sacked then offered their new jobs at non union rates and CUB had nothing to do with it? They didn't think the new contract wouldn't have an affect on their workers wages? Oh well, you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. Funnily enough, tradesman are probably their biggest target market and it would be nice to see a sustained effort to boycott the big breweries. Love to see all them union thugs putting away Pirate Life.

CUB changed maintenance supplier. It was already outsourced so they sacked who exactly? Non-union rates hey? The union rates appears to have been around 3 times the going rate. Maybe it is either a choice of cutting costs or moving manufacturing offshore. Since the GFC we are seeing price deflation in the grocery and liquor sector driven by the large retailers. Manufacturers costs are not going down so perhaps the only way to deliver their EBIT to their parent companies is to carry savings through to the bottom line.

 

[Crusty]

considering the wages arent mentioned, how do you know the new contracts aren't 'fair'?
if a maintenance electrician or fitter was previously being paid $80/hr (~$150k a year) and is now being offered ~$95k a year, does that make the $95k/year unfair?

Of course it's unfair if your wage went from $150k to $95k.
The arshole Liberals push for this very cause. Big business matters to them & that's all that matters.
We all can't walk away with a $250k a year pension like the ex Pollies. Some of us work fucked jobs, fucked hours & fucked wages too.
Oh, I forgot to mention, how about we look at taking the lousy penalty rates away from us soon too so we can struggle our way through life some more.
Did I mention that the average pensioner gets $20k a year & a married pensioner couple gets $31k combined.
$62 million for the CEO, go **** yourself CUB & anything even remotely related to your company.

 

[Zorco]

That's shifting topic isn't it?

Regardless, agree whole heartedly.

Edit: dad's a pensioner

 

[Diesel80]

There is nobody here that would not work at a brewing company for 62M a year. You can buy plenty of stillnox for that and sleep just fine at night. Don't hate the player, hate the game. I am a contractor coming up 3 years now on current assignment but the whole time you only have a 1 week job. Notice period is the longest period of employment you can count on. Same as staff, just tends to be 4x longer and you are likely second out the door not first. Nothing lasts forever. There have been some great posts prior though. Some really well thought out. Hope my opinion doesn't lower the bar too far.....

 

[Camo6]

CUB changed maintenance supplier. It was already outsourced so they sacked who exactly? Non-union rates hey? The union rates appears to have been around 3 times the going rate. Maybe it is either a choice of cutting costs or moving manufacturing offshore. Since the GFC we are seeing price deflation in the grocery and liquor sector driven by the large retailers. Manufacturers costs are not going down so perhaps the only way to deliver their EBIT to their parent companies is to carry savings through to the bottom line.

Not arguing the legality of it moreso the morality of it. You can call that business but I call it disturbing. This isn't a once off, it's happening everywhere. Yet the profits keep rising. I've worked award rates and EBA rates and can assure you that union won EBA rates are not excessive for the work performed.

 

[Brownsworthy]

**** those shit ***** and their shitty fucken beer!

 

[wide eyed and legless]

$62 million is what the union put out, take the 2 off that figure and it is more realistic, lots of the big companies employ contract labour, especially in the maintenance field, why, if they are not happy with the performance of an individual contractor then they are able to get him/her replaced, no hiding behind fair work or union petticoats for them.
A companies right to hire and fire has been diminished, so they can't be blamed for using contract labour firms, and if a contractor gets his head down and arse up he will be remunerated accordingly.

 

[SBOB]

just another devils advocate point

The majority of re-contracted complaints i see when older contracts are ended and new ones made, is not necessarily the shift in base wage, but a reduction in (what is usually) massively generous overtime conditions, such as minimum call out times.
- I've worked on jobs where any call out (i.e. a SCADA system sends an SMS to an operator, and requires approx 2 minutes of work by the operator to rectify) results in both a minimum 4 hour call out plus penalty rate loading on weekends. So a single alarm escalation can cost, for 2 minutes could actually cost 4 hours on a normal day, or 8 hours of pay due to the overtime conditions on a penalty rate scenario (such as weekend of if the person has worked more than x hours)

 

[Brownsworthy]

So then how is it cheaper to use contractors if thats the case? It's really just another way to strip away workers right and rip off the little people.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

More than likely not cheaper just far less headaches, and contractors get paid well, especially subcontracting, my brother who is an electrician is subying at the moment and getting $60/ hour, but he is aware that he can be laid off anytime.

 

[Brownsworthy]

Like I said it's just another way to strip away workers rights.

 

[Killer Brew]

So then how is it cheaper to use contractors if thats the case? It's really just another way to strip away workers right and rip off the little people.

They were already using contractors. Now they are using different contractors. Seriously what were these original guys getting paid if other companies can pay 1/3 of the wage and still be within the conditions of their EBA?

 

[TheWiggman]

You might find the contractor has those conditions in their contract and they charge back to the company.
Some clarity here - it's not just the 'company' trying to stooge and save as much as they can, contractor labour is sometimes the easy option. I worked in mining for years during the 2000's heyday and at that stage the name of the game was getting as much coal out of the ground as you can. Company associates in the city would look at it like a paper game - where can we get trucks? How do we get hold of tyres? How can we organise drivers etc. A contractor like Emeco was in a great position because they had trucks ready to mobilise with drivers waiting. They could literally almost charge whatever they wanted. The unions on site hated this mentality and anyone who worked for them, but at the end of the day it was more profit which was better for the company. One scenario.
The other scenario is where a company decides to focus on their core business and outsource everything. A maintenance contractor would be better at undertaking maintenance than a manager who wants functioning plant. This happens a lot with cleaning companies. So send the feelers out, get some numbers back, and invariably argue why the more expensive company is a better choice (because at the end of the day the commercial department will pick the cheapest mob anyway). Contractor does it's thing. Then after the fixed term is up and the said contractor is comfortable charging heaps for all the overtime and training, the commercial department reviews the contract and goes "hey we could save a lot of money on this contract", and roundtable discussions result in a negotiation of rates more in line with what they think is fair. Hands clean, hundreds of thousands of dollars saved, and they go home thinking they've just justified their role. Where is the humanistic side in this justification? Because you can't put a number to it, it's left at the door.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Having your company force managed by an external party is the oldest trick in the book

How often do you see a company close down, and the workers get stiffed of entitlements because the external workforce manager all of a sudden is broke and has to be liquidated.

That happened in Grafton here with the local abattoir, asshole who owned it wanted to shut it down and all the employed where employed by a third party.

Old mate shut the meatworks, which meant the third party lost the contract and conveniently went broke and could not pay out the workers

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Like I said it's just another way to strip away workers rights.

Contractors are workers too.

 

[Camo6]

They were already using contractors. Now they are using different contractors. Seriously what were these original guys getting paid if other companies can pay 1/3 of the wage and still be within the conditions of their EBA?

The minimum wage for a grade 1 electrical worker was $17.96 last time I checked.
Could you support a family on that. **** that shit.

 

[Killer Brew]

The minimum wage for a grade 1 electrical worker was $17.96 last time I checked.
Could you support a family on that. **** that shit.

And where exactly does it say that is now what is being offered?

 

[goomboogo]

$62 million is what the union put out, take the 2 off that figure and it is more realistic,

Still, $60 million is a lot.

 

[Brownsworthy]

Contractors are workers too.

You missed my point that your brother could be laid off at any time. Contractors are not 'employees' so that takes away some responsibility from the people who are contracting them.