Another Brew Shop Closed

[Online Brewing Supplies]

about time?

Come on Fish, Bunbury is like the Snowtown of the southwest.
Still full of Disco's , flares and barrels of acid.
Nev

 

[Fish13]

Come on Fish, Bunbury is like the Snowtown of the southwest.
Still full of Disco's , flares and barrels of acid.
Nev

but no disused bank vaults though :S

 

[Zizzle]

Does anyone in Oz do all grain beers kits yet?

We have gotten a couple of people into AG brewing here in the US.

Recipe formulation and ordering can be a bit daunting in the beginning so it's good to be able to tell someone to go find an AG kit that they like the sound of and just focus on the process.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/brewing.../all-grain-kits

With such a variety of kits you can see why some people never graduate to doing their own recipes.

But again, it's a value add by the retailer. So I'm sure the margin is better than just moving grain.

 

[Wolfy]

Does anyone in Oz do all grain beers kits yet?

Yes, some have even done kits based on recipes posted on these forums.

 

[Truman42]

Yes, some have even done kits based on recipes posted on these forums.

Thats an awesome idea and what some of these smaller shops should be doing. Create All grain kits based on clone recipes complete with the hops and yeast all in a box ready to go with instructions. Have it unmilled and offer to mill if the customer wants that.
Even have small BIAB starter kits, with a 20 litre BigW pot, a voille bag, a Bunnings 20 litre cube and printed instructions based on Nicks $30 all grain thread.

My dad has been doing extract brewing for years and had no idea about BIAB until I told him about it, and I only stumbled upon it by finding this site.

The attitude that some of these smaller LHBS have that they don't sell it because its crap or a waste of time is why a lot of us don't go into their shops anymore.

On another note does anyone know what the brew shop in Rutherford road Seaford stocks? Ive seen his posters up all over the place but Im sure someone here told me he sells mainly grow and smoke rather than brew and drink.

 

[bignath]

Thats an awesome idea and what some of these smaller shops should be doing. Create All grain kits based on clone recipes complete with the hops and yeast all in a box ready to go with instructions. Have it unmilled and offer to mill if the customer wants that.

But if they cant tell you what to do with it once they put it all together in a pack for you then it's just another thing we'll be back here bitching about.

For me, it's probably more about the attitude, knowledge, and experience (or lack of) than what's actually on their shelves.

 

[Steve@PMF82]

Basically comes down to massive generation gaps.
Older generations could take a massive leaf out of someone like BribieG's book, only too happy to help and discuss experience and knowledge.

Living in a small country town and being quite bit younger than most i have experienced the ignorant/arrogant attitudes expressed by older generation shop owners. To the point that i don't feel comfortable going into the store.
I have had a shop owner say to me in a sneering way more than once after asking them a question, while trying to support their local business, " why dont you just look it up on the Internet"

Personally i like to try and gain information from many sources as possible, so im always happy to listen to the older and wiser as there is usually something you can learn.

I have 2 LHBS about and hour away in different directions and the first couple of times i went in there i asked can you order other things in for me which was met with " oh i think you will find we have everything you need here already" Lazy arrogant response.
I wont even buy DME extract any more as its just rubbish, due to poor storage or age or just crap i don't know? for cheaper including post i can get fresh quality briess extract from grain grape.

 

[bum]

Have it unmilled and offer to mill if the customer wants that.

From a retailer's POV, doesn't this defeat the whole point of offering such packs?

 

[Truman42]

From a retailer's POV, doesn't this defeat the whole point of offering such packs?

Well they could keep it all mixed as per the recipe in a bag unmilled so it stays fresh, and then mill when the customer purchases it. Or if the customer has his own mill he takes home as is.

Just an idea.

 

[Feldon]

Brouwland in Belgium is hopefully what an HBS in Australia might one day look like (albeit maybe a bit smaller).

http://www.brouwland.com/en/

Brick & mortar presence is a retail shop with massive 3,700 squ meters of retail floor space, plus an online operation that sends stuff all over the world.

They also sell all grain kits ...

BREWFERM MALT KITS
You want to brew some beer from grain, but you dont have a recipe at hand or you dont know how to get started ? These ready-to-use malt kits from BREWFERM are the ideal solution. Containing all ingredients required to brew 15-20 litres of beer : malts, necessary special grains (wheat, corn flakes etc.), hops, necessary herbs and a dry brewing yeast. Assembled by our master brewer according to proven recipes and packed for optimal freshness. With comprehensive instructions and clear mashing schedule. ​

These kits come in many styles too...

 

[GalBrew]

Yes, didn't really want to get into slagging off the LHBS, buy I remember some time ago buying some hops at my LHBS and they guy (kid?) behind the counter asked me what was inside that foil bag...........

 

[Brewers Choice]

Pre-made kits would seem a good idea - we tried this for a while, but we still needed to get the hops and yeast from the fridge at the time of purchase, even for our K&K kits. Kind of defeats the idea. We have found far more success keeping a couple of books in the beer area with all our recipes for Kits, Extracts and AG brews. Customers go through them, select the recipe, we get the ingredients fresh and print out the recipe for them. This has moved a heap of K&K onto extract and also helps our new All-grainers who aren't ready to write their own recipes yet.

I can't believe that store owners can be so negative to customers. You should point out that you pay their wages! It's probably a good thing for the industry when stores like that close down.

 

[Truman42]

Pre-made kits would seem a good idea - we tried this for a while, but we still needed to get the hops and yeast from the fridge at the time of purchase, even for our K&K kits. Kind of defeats the idea. We have found far more success keeping a couple of books in the beer area with all our recipes for Kits, Extracts and AG brews. Customers go through them, select the recipe, we get the ingredients fresh and print out the recipe for them. This has moved a heap of K&K onto extract and also helps our new All-grainers who aren't ready to write their own recipes yet.

I can't believe that store owners can be so negative to customers. You should point out that you pay their wages! It's probably a good thing for the industry when stores like that close down.

Whatver works...At last your doing it because thats what your customers want insted of saying.."Why do you want to bother with that crap, here just use this tin....."

 

[DJR]

AFAIK Craftbrewer does do recipe packs like Smurto's GA, at least the grain, the hops are a bit harder to split on demand (but 90g of Amarillo will do it)

 

[peterlonz]

My 2 cents worth:

LHBS vary in the quality of advice available, & in the variety of product offered.
It's common sense that in more thinly populated areas, the demand for AG brewing will likely be so low that allocating space & stock to low turnover product is just unwise.
Yes I agree generally (my observations of Qld's Gold Coast) they offer predominantly kits & distilling stuff.
One LHBS does offer CO2 bottle filling, sample beer tasting, & is open extended hours (Palm Beach) so he gets my support.
I have brewed from kits the last 30 years of a brewing "career" lasting 40 years, & I now finally use 6 kegs (Cornie 19 litre), & would use more if my damned fridge was bigger!
My biggest cost is the kit & AFAIK I can't get them (delivered) at lower cost by on line means.
My kegs were however better & cheaper using an on line Aussie supplier (??).
BTW "Big W" have quite often had the Coopers kits on special at really low prices around 10$. Yestreday the were around $13.

Regarding Coopers:
They have been around forever & their kits are dependable, can't say for sure if they are the best or just amongst the best
When I phoned for advice about some kits past the use by date, they advised correctly, & offered to replace the yeast at no cost. I soon received 12 sachets of assorted yeasts. Good on ya Coopers!
Coopers supply supermarkets only with "basic kits" & the LHBS with their better more recently developed kits which cost more. This has put them onside with the LHBS.

 

[glenwal]

We have found far more success keeping a couple of books in the beer area with all our recipes for Kits, Extracts and AG brews.

A half half idea might work - where you have a book with the recipies, with a price for the recipie that covers everything you need. Kind of like a McValue meal.

edit: spelling

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

My 2 cents worth:

LHBS vary in the quality of advice available, & in the variety of product offered.
It's common sense that in more thinly populated areas, the demand for AG brewing will likely be so low that allocating space & stock to low turnover product is just unwise.
Yes I agree generally (my observations of Qld's Gold Coast) they offer predominantly kits & distilling stuff.
One LHBS does offer CO2 bottle filling, sample beer tasting, & is open extended hours (Palm Beach) so he gets my support.
I have brewed from kits the last 30 years of a brewing "career" lasting 40 years, & I now finally use 6 kegs (Cornie 19 litre), & would use more if my damned fridge was bigger!
My biggest cost is the kit & AFAIK I can't get them (delivered) at lower cost by on line means.
My kegs were however better & cheaper using an on line Aussie supplier (??).
BTW "Big W" have quite often had the Coopers kits on special at really low prices around 10$. Yestreday the were around $13.

Regarding Coopers:
They have been around forever & their kits are dependable, can't say for sure if they are the best or just amongst the best
When I phoned for advice about some kits past the use by date, they advised correctly, & offered to replace the yeast at no cost. I soon received 12 sachets of assorted yeasts. Good on ya Coopers!
Coopers supply supermarkets only with "basic kits" & the LHBS with their better more recently developed kits which cost more. This has put them onside with the LHBS.

Which is fantastic - if you want to remain doing kits. Your LHBS does everything you want, and that's good for you. I dare say that if you weren't happy with the results, you wouldn't have stuck with the hobby for the last 40 odd years, so good for you in finding what works for you.

But for those of us that want to do all-grain, the LHBS who specialises in kit and "spiritual" activities, is as useless as Big W. It's like going to a motorbike dealer to buy a car. Yeah - they both sell things with an engine in common, but not what you're looking for.

Good on Coopers for looking after you though!

I get my bottle filled more locally - both the price is cheaper and the overnight turnover is pretty decent. He's got nothing else I want, and I might take him some beer one day, just to see what's possible, but otherwise there's nothing I buy that he sells.

Goomba

 

[glenwal]

BTW "Big W" have quite often had the Coopers kits on special at really low prices around 10$. Yestreday the were around $13.

Just don't buy from Big W online.

I ordered a coopers ginger beer kit a few weeks ago. Took over a week for them to dispatch my item (even though it was listed as in stock when i ordered), and then 4 days for Aus Post to "deliver it". The icing on the cake was when I got home from work to find another package (something i'd ordered elsewhere) sitting at my door, with a "sorry we missed you" slip on top for my Big W order (both had been delivered by Australia Post together). When I placed the order with Big W, i ticked the box for "Leave package unattended" (and this is confirmed in the various emails they sent me - listed in the delivery instructions section), yet when I finally picked it up it had "Requires Signature for delivery" written on it. The only reason I ordered it online was because I didn't have time to get to Big W - and then I had to find time to go to the post office in the end anyway (which is actually harder because their opening hours are less).

 

[bowie in space]

I love the convenience of the Craftbrewer set up. I order and pay online with a pick up time suggested, then I drive ten minutes, walk in and my stuff is ready. I only wait half a minute while the guy grabs my yeast out of the fridge, them I'm out again. I barely speak to Ross, he's a busy guy anyway and I don't wanna pester him with questions like "can you really ferment S-189 at 18C"? That's why we have AHB.

My first LHBS in Richmond, Melbourne was a horrifying ordeal. The guy had no knowledge of grain brewing and was very insulting of my cleaning and sanitation regime. The kit packs were way overpriced and their sample beers were shit. I then discovered this website and found that G&G were way closer to where I lived. Both of the businesses mentioned above have fresh wort kits made on premises and offer brewing demonstrations to the public. The ingredients are usually of high standards and they generally support the brewing clubs and communities. Kits and bits stores will keep dying off because they only attract a small proportion of an an already small market. The guy up at Bribie Island couldn't give a shit about craft beer, in fact, he is more concerned about getting his bets on for the Saturday races and closing early to get down to the pub and drink xxxx.


A little off topic;

For any retail business to survive these days you need to offer great service, knowledge, price and convenience. I managed the CD department at JB Hi-Fi for about seven years and saw the downward trend towards buying hard copies of CD's that were overpriced at $30. People don't buy CD's like they used to but it doesn't mean people aren't listening to the same amount of music. Online sales (and stealing) has increased dramatically and really meant that I needed to look for a new job. Plus the company wasn't hiring music minded people anymore and that trend has continued across a lot of retail businesses. Business owners really need to wake up. Old fashioned customer service is dead in so many stores and if you don't want to deal with rude and ignorant staff, then you shop online. Less retail real estate costs means cheaper prices on goods.

Back on topic;

Compared to your avarage LHBS that stocks kits and bits, places like G&G and Craftbrewer have a point of difference to the consumer, both places are operated by people who are passionate about beer. There has been the odd occasion where I haven't received the best customer service from both these places, but I can't argue with the range of products, prices, knowledge and convenience. The craft brewing industry is such a niche market and the brewing community recognises this and subsequently supports the businesses that are dedicated to the cause.

Bowie

 

[eviljesus]

<snip>

I can't believe that store owners can be so negative to customers. You should point out that you pay their wages! It's probably a good thing for the industry when stores like that close down.

I have actually experienced this attitude in a BC in Brisbane area while being a complete noob starting with K&K. I've since gained a fair amount of knowledge (relative to what I did know) and now get on with the bloke fairly well. That said, if I wasn't fairly thick skinned, the embarrassment of being made a dick of infront of other customers or the persons in question's mates, I probably wouldn't of gone back.

Also to be fair, the fella from BC in Annerley is outstanding. Knowledgeable and super pleasant to deal with all the time. I have no problem supporting stores such as his and personally have mates that drive across the city to pick up anything they need, regardless if there is a closer brew shop.