Another Brew Shop Closed

[Truman42]

The wife went to get her hair done in Frankston on Saturday so I went along to get a quick trim. As womans hair always takes longer than mens, with colouring, straightening, idle gossip, and all that crap, I decided to go for a walk to Brew and grow around the corner to get a bottling wand and some crown seals.

But when I got there the place had shut down.

It seems to be the trend with home brew shops, and places like Coles and Woolies not stocking HB supplies anymore.

So is it that HB is a dying hobby, or is it more so that with online suppliers and the larger stores like G&G and KK selling more variety that these smaller shops just cant compete?
I would have thought that with BIAB and easier AG brewing, the hobby would be more popular now than it was say 15 years ago.

I can see a shop in Hallam being next as there is never anyone in that shop when I go and I only go there to get emergency supplies as its just around the corner from work. I would love to support the smaller guys but shops like Brew and Grow really dont stock enough variety and seem to only cater for extract and K&K brewers. (That is unless your hobby is to grow and smoke rather than brew and drink.)

 

[Rowy]

The wife went to get her hair done in Frankston on Saturday so I went along to get a quick trim. As womans hair always takes longer than mens, with colouring, straightening, idle gossip, and all that crap, I decided to go for a walk to Brew and grow around the corner to get a bottling wand and some crown seals.

But when I got there the place had shut down.

It seems to be the trend with home brew shops, and places like Coles and Woolies not stocking HB supplies anymore.

So is it that HB is a dying hobby, or is it more so that with online suppliers and the larger stores like G&G and KK selling more variety that these smaller shops just cant compete?
I would have thought that with BIAB and easier AG brewing, the hobby would be more popular now than it was say 15 years ago.

I can see a shop in Hallam being next as there is never anyone in that shop when I go and I only go there to get emergency supplies as its just around the corner from work. I would love to support the smaller guys but shops like Brew and Grow really dont stock enough variety and seem to only cater for extract and K&K brewers. (That is unless your hobby is to grow and smoke rather than brew and drink.)

IMHO I think that most of those shops cater to K&K brewers and AG is taking over to a degree so the places that attract those sort of customers get the market.

When I started doing K&K's the bloke that looked after me at Cleveland was a good bloke but couldn't compete on the AG front so I left. Still a good bloke but I am doing differnent things. (Hope this sounds alright I may have imbibed today)

 

[Wolfy]

So is it that HB is a dying hobby, or is it more so that with online suppliers and the larger stores like G&G and KK selling more variety that these smaller shops just cant compete?
I would have thought that with BIAB and easier AG brewing, the hobby would be more popular now than it was say 15 years ago.

I can see a shop in Hallam being next as there is never anyone in that shop when I go and I only go there to get emergency supplies as its just around the corner from work. I would love to support the smaller guys but shops like Brew and Grow really dont stock enough variety and seem to only cater for extract and K&K brewers. (That is unless your hobby is to grow and smoke rather than brew and drink.)

With the increasing interest in 'Craft Brewing' I doubt that the hobby is dying.

However, most local 'Brew Shops' appear to be targeted toward kit-brewers and other-alcohol-products (such as extracts and the like), given the name of the shop you mentioned 'Brew and Grow" one assumes that a large part of their business was focused to growing some weeds.

My LHBS (the other one you mention) does not stock anything that I can imagine I want to buy, or offer any advice that I imagine I'd want to hear - so they do not get my business and if they go away it will be no loss to me. I drive past them to Keg King, or to Grain and Grape, both of which stock many products I am interested in and both can usually provide adequate advice. Other than that I buy off the net or in bulk, both of which make my 'LHBS' totally irrelevant to me.

 

[Rowy]

With the increasing interest in 'Craft Brewing' I doubt that the hobby is dying.

However, most local 'Brew Shops' appear to be targeted toward kit-brewers and other-alcohol-products (such as extracts and the like), given the name of the shop you mentioned 'Brew and Grow" one assumes that a large part of their business was focused to growing some weeds.

My LHBS (the other one you mention) does not stock anything that I can imagine I want to buy, or offer any advice that I imagine I'd want to hear - so they do not get my business and if they go away it will be no loss to me. I drive past them to Keg King, or to Grain and Grape, both of which stock many products I am interested in and both can usually provide adequate advice. Other than that I buy off the net or in bulk, both of which make my 'LHBS' totally irrelevant to me.

Like wolfy said

 

[Bribie G]

My own take on this is from the point of view of an elderly gent (as you perceive me ) who actually ran a LHBS in the late 1970s at the time that HB was getting a go-on with the first kits on the market.

Initially there was a big interest in kits and extract brewing, with the brewers realising they wouldn't be able to recreate XXXX or Carlton, but make a tasty brew they could get pissed on. This market stayed fairly stable until a few years ago with quite a few long lived LHBS, when the supermarkets got into it and Coopers in particular started some national advertising.




Combined with the rising interest in craft beers such as JS and LC many new home brewers got into the market and everything boomed, including the LHBS. At the same time a hard core of AG brewers arose, sort of "in parallel" to the kit brewers and became what we see today on our forum and the clubs and events around Australia.

The supply of AG ingredients became fairly centralised into some strong regional/national suppliers such as MHB, CraftBrewer, Grain and Grape etc et. The LHBS couldn't really become strong in this market because in each of their catchment areas there were either only a few, or no, AG brewers.

To supplement their income most LHBS turned to distilling requirements, as the government has de-facto legalised this craft (or doesn't enforce the laws) and this enabled LHBS to enter an new period of stability.
However for new brewers entering the store, the LHBS couldn't really advise on aspects such as AG because they were unable to offer the products.

This is a double edged sword, because they need to retain their brewers as kit or extract - but supermarkets are very convenient and "bleed" a lot of their sales. A lot of supermarkets have gone out of HB but many still stock. So a lot of new brewers go to them, but no advice available.

My own opinion is that Coopers et al should look carefully at their future and maybe decide NOT to supply the supermarkets and reinstate the LHBS as the point of sale and advice, to avoid a collapse in kit and extract brewing.



Discuss B)

Edit:

A silly quirk is that the Coopers Distribution "contractor" refuses to supply the likes of Craftbrewer (who is in a perfect position to offer advice to home brewers) because there is a LHBS allocated to his area, but Coopers will quite happily have their stock in IGA or Woolies in the same area where the staff are unable to offer advice.

Further discuss

 

[Phoney]

Online sales are definitely hurting the bricks and mortar shops. The only reason I ever have to go to a LHBS nowadays is to swap a c02 tank over, then I'm like a kid in a toystore and usually walk out with something else but this is once every 6 months instead of once every few weeks. And when you're shopping online it doesnt matter if the store is located 10km away or 1000km away, price and variety always wins out which means the little guys always lose.

 

[Dazza88]

Isn't there a general trend of retailing doing it tough at the moment?

 

[pk.sax]

I gotta say Bribie nailed it.

The biggest brew shop here is hellbent on staying out of AG and they have other concerns like cheese making under the same roof, floor area wise, the shop is bigger than g&g.

You might've noticed but on this forum itself there is a disproportionate number of people that are first gen Aussies.
Point being, most have plenty of other interests, those tht venture into HB never go past k&k. As easy as it sounds, AG brewing does require some brainwork & time, the number of it people and tradesmen on this forum dwarfs others, markets respond to demographics.

As Melbourne grows and the population pushes outwards, they are displacing the so called 'lazy crowd'. The k&k clientele is melting away.

There are definite ways to relate these trends to what happens on the ground.

 

[peaky]

I buy all of my grain in bulk buys, except for the odd kilo of specialty grain (which I purchase online anyway). Almost all of my hops come from the US. ALL of my yeast comes from swapping slants with other slanters around the country. I own very little equipment, some of it I make at work myself, almost nothing gets purchased from LHBS. All of my brewing questions are answered by searching online.

It's (kinda) funny how I normally try to support local small business when I shop for everything except brewing stuff.

Sorry to the bricks and mortar LHBS owners....


I also do a lot of spearfishing and ALL of my dive equipment is purchased locally from the shop (never online). As far as diving goes I get better answers to my questions in-shop rather than online.

 

[dr K]

LHBS get a lot of support and so they should, but the simple fact is that are those that just push product (usually Kits) out the door and those that really are part of the scene. Grain and Grape in Melbourne and Mark's Home Brew in Newcastle are two prominent examples of Brew Shops that are full of enthusiastic and knowlegdeable people (and thats just the customers !), of course there are many others.

G and G , MHB and others have supported this hobby for a long time, and their clients have reciprocated.
The hobby continues to grow.

K

 

[Batz]

There's nothing like walking into a HBS, even if it's mainly K&K I still go in and say hi to the owner and have a look around.

batz

 

[kelbygreen]

not only that but the closest store near me is usless and give ill advise so the chances of there costumers coming back or even brewing again is minimal. They said I could ferment beer in my shed during a heat wave of 38-42c for a week and a half straight without any aids to cool it down. There words where it will just ferment faster! Now I am not sure if any of you have fermented a beer at a stable temp of 35c but I can tell you that you will be going to the shop to buy some vb as it will taste like the best beer on earth at that point!

Needless to say that I never went back in there and found this forum then was buying kits from the supermarket, As one it was more convenient as I was already there and 2 you have to park like 500m away from the shop as it was in a main street and half the day you cant park there and the other half there is no way you can find a park. also there advice was shocking so you wasted your time asking them. The guy packing shelfs at coles prob had more of a idea how to brew then them and he prob only touched the cans to put on the shelf.

 

[Smokomark]

IMHO I think that most of those shops cater to K&K brewers and AG is taking over to a degree so the places that attract those sort of customers get the market.

When I started doing K&K's the bloke that looked after me at Cleveland was a good bloke but couldn't compete on the AG front so I left. Still a good bloke but I am doing differnent things. (Hope this sounds alright I may have imbibed today)

You're right, Jeff at Cleveland is a great bloke, Ross at Capalaba is also. They are servicing different markets really, but i am happy to spend my money with either.
Without guys like Jeff a lot of people won't get into brewing at the entry level.
Without guys like Ross a lot of us wouldn't realise our passion for brewing.

 

[the_new_darren]

My own take on this is from the point of view of an elderly gent (as you perceive me ) who actually ran a LHBS in the late 1970s at the time that HB was getting a go-on with the first kits on the market.



My own opinion is that Coopers et al should look carefully at their future and maybe decide NOT to supply the supermarkets and reinstate the LHBS as the point of sale and advice, to avoid a collapse in kit and extract brewing.



Discuss B)

I reckon Coopers should re-establish "shop front" sales of malt to homebrewers like they used to do.

Coopers crystal was the ducks nuts. as was the wheat and pale, but alas, the olden days are gone.

tnd

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

There's nothing like walking into a HBS, even if it's mainly K&K I still go in and say hi to the owner and have a look around.

batz

:lol:
Nev

 

[wessmith]

I reckon Coopers should re-establish "shop front" sales of malt to homebrewers like they used to do.

Coopers crystal was the ducks nuts. as was the wheat and pale, but alas, the olden days are gone.

tnd

Who do you think made their crystal malt Darren?

Wes

 

[Feldon]

Seems the demise of bricks & mortar homebrew shops is not restricted to Australia.

A newbie posted this today on UK forum Jim's Beer Kit :

Hi all, I am looking for a home brewing shop based in London, ideally close to SW4 (no car). I just need to get some dry malt (ideally coopers light) for a kit brew, so a small place that does some brewing equipment would be ideal...​

and a reply :

... Your nearest supplier is roughly about 7 miles away from your postcode. Its a frequent problem that people these days dont have a "local" home brew shop - they can be few and far between (my nearest shop is 16 miles away and rarely ever open, meaning I use another one thats nearly 30 miles away ! ) The internet presents the best combination of price and convenience as you can shop from your armchair and its all delivered by postie​

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtop...f=6&t=50055

 

[bum]

I would have thought that with BIAB and easier AG brewing, the hobby would be more popular now than it was say 15 years ago.

Perhaps - not sure how that helps a LHBS that doesn't sell grain outside of a few bags of pre-packaged spec. This is the same LHBS where the register attendant once told me that "it's not worth all the trouble" of using grain.

However, I did have to wait about 15 minutes once while he designed a hydro system for some kid who can't have been 18.

I would love to support the smaller guys but shops like Brew and Grow really dont stock enough variety and seem to only cater for extract and K&K brewers.

They supported extract brewers? Pig's arse! I've told this story before but early on in my brewing career, I once went in there with an idea to brew an all-extract wheat beer (turns out that wasn't the best idea in the world but I digress). I explained to the guy what I needed (tins of wheat goop). He says "where are you going to get your bitterness from?" and I say "I'll boil it up with some hops...?".

I swear I am not making this up - he says "Can you even do that?!"

Good riddance.

 

[Batz]

:lol:
Nev

I did that at your place Nev.

 

[kelbygreen]

places like nevs that sell just kits and a few brown pumps, I cant see how they keep running

 

[bignath]

LHBS get a lot of support and so they should, but the simple fact is that are those that just push product (usually Kits) out the door and those that really are part of the scene. Grain and Grape in Melbourne and Mark's Home Brew in Newcastle are two prominent examples of Brew Shops that are full of enthusiastic and knowlegdeable people (and thats just the customers !), of course there are many others.

G and G , MHB and others have supported this hobby for a long time, and their clients have reciprocated.
The hobby continues to grow.

K

Absolutely.

Particularly the last part about customer reciprocating.

I'll gladly spend a little more money in a shop for equal ingredients and equipment if i know the dude that is running the store knows or atleast has a passion for his product.

Nothing ***** me more when you go into a store for advise only to discover you know infinitely more than the owner.
I'm looking at you Dick Head Smith Electronics.

Went into my local the other day as i could have sworn he sold some brewing salts. Didn't know about any of the major salts at all. Black and Yellow everywhere. Total knob.

EDIT: Maybe it's just me, but in this world of internet everywhere, i think there's no excuse for not being able to do some research and at least discover new products or brewing methods that may help your business.
I used to work in the music equipment retail industry, and when customers weren't in the shop, the manager and i would constantly be on the net researching and looking at all kinds of new gear to further our knowledge.

 

[DJR]

When I moved up here to the blue mountains, my LHBS was a 10 min drive away, Pat had a shop at Faulconbridge. Was yet another great reason to move here... He closed that shop about 2 and a bit years ago now, so now I go down to St Mary's, or Pat just lives up the road from me in Lawson so drops off stuff when i need it (thanks alot Pat if you are reading this )

Bribie is right, if we go to an average LHBS shop, ask to make an OK beer and get shown "use this kit X with this yeast Y" and it's just a kit with BE2/spray malt, a bit of hops and some yeast. What is to stop someone going over the road to Kmart/BigW and getting the same kit, spray malt and BE2 for a few bucks cheaper, and then just buying some hops, yeast or whatever they can't get at Kmart from the brew shop, or feeling like that's being a bit scummy to order such a small amount and dud the LHBS on the full sale, so order it online.

The brew shop who wants to actually survive then responds by generalising, e.g. big chain LHBS here are now doing beer, wine, spirits, cheese, jerky, sausages, coffee and more. If shops go down that path there may not be a huge amount of knowledge across all the product lines they offer, but it is a way to stay in business and provide many alternative revenue-generating products. Or they respond by specialising - going to higher levels of brewing e.g. AG which is where people like Ross and Pat excel, having more equipment e.g. stainless bling, alternative products, fresher hops than everyone else, lots of yeast etc

Not all people by a long shot that are into AG brewing or brewing in general are on this forum at all, but there is probably a fair few people who just look at the info and recipes as guests and never register. Even at that level the amount of information on here would be far more than an LHBS owner that has only ever brewed kits and that creates a massive problem for consumers of these outlets. If you are looking to an LHBS for advice and they are either ignorant, arrogant or worse still just plain wrong then what is the point... get your advice and ingredients online or some other place that cares.

Only issue with the amount of free information is that it does leave open the supermarket model to come in, set up a massive online brew shop and start dudding other brew shops, wholesalers or online retailers without really offering advice and just offering products. If you don't need to offer advice ala BigW or Kmart then what is to stop you setting up a shop that basically sells everything ingredients wise to homebrewers. But thankfully the thing that stops the big boys playing that game is the market is still quite small and the profit margins aren't really there to run a business beyond a pretty small operation. As opposed to the liquor industry as a whole, which is massively bigger

 

[the_new_darren]

Who do you think made their crystal malt Darren?

Wes

I dunno Wes,

I know I and my kids could eat it by the handful.

Was sweet as.

Who made it? Is it still available?

It must have been ~500EBC. Never saw anything available at that "colour" or sweetness since

tnd

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Gotta comment on this, but I will state, at the outset, that I'm a happy Craftbrewer customer. So all the *******, h8ers, and people wanting to take a pot shot can get their respective panties in a twist and go and look up a Victoria Secret catalogue and indulge their sick crossdressing fantasies there.

Okey dokey, that caveat aside.

My LHBS (not CB) has a "spiritual" friend there - indulges a great deal, as does his missus. I go there when the excrement hits the rotating cooling device and my yeast doesn't take (like that dodgy batch of notto a week ago).

I go in there, dude looks stoned.

I get a pack of US-05 (brewcraft version, thank you Dr. Google). He asks me if I'm brewing Little Creatures and which kit I'm using. Tell him I AG, he stares blankly at me. Looks over to his weevil infested overpriced uncracked grain bags and stares at me like I've spoken Klingon.

Other time, I'm in there with my mate when we're about to brew cider, ask the lady about the wine yeasts and their respective temp ranges (as I'm not going to temp control his cider over my beer), and she says "oh, love, I don't make wine y'know". Sniff.

I go into CB and ask "do you reckon in x beer style that x grain will work better than y grain?" (just to make sure my recipe is spot on). Get a sensible answer.

Repeat both negative and positive experiences 10x over.

Price has a fair amount to do with it too.

Simple other fact - the internet has given knowledge to anyone who can type something into google. These "old style" shops need to get with the program and realise that most people have the ability to choose. Even our K&K friends have chosen that method, rather than assuming that it's the only way to go about making beer. We can google on our phones. Had a mate never brewed before, bottling with me today (his beer), told him "punch abv calc into google" numbers went in, abv came out.

We are an information world. Provide the product and sound like you give a crap, and most will respect you for that.

Goomba

 

[kelbygreen]

you have it about spot on DJR and I see where you come from with big retailers. If they did open something up it would be hard for the little guys to compete. Although there wouldnt be much use in them unless they opened a online store or just set up in a major city or something as I doubt the profit would be there to open a store attached to say every woolies or something. They obviously found out that even selling kits in the store is not viable as if it was they would still have them on the shelfs. I dont think the retailers have to worry about the big guys yet. They make more money per item off the pre made grog then they would on the ingredients to make grog.

Its a hard game you even ask the retailers that are on this forum. They dont make as much as people think they do, They are competitive and they offer great service and advice. They like to hire brewers to work in the shops and they like to look after the loyal customers. I use Mark and I cant fault his service and advice, I always spend way longer then I need in the shop with him giving me info or telling me about products and how to use them or new things he is trailing to make brewing better, He has alot of knowledge and he seems to be in it to help brewers then make huge profits.

I am sure all the good home brew shops are the same and ordering online is not the same. Get into one of these shops its great I go in to pick up grain thats sitting there waiting but spend almost a hour in the shop talking about brewing. I mean if Mark had no passion for the game he wouldnt waste his time helping explain things to you.

 

[komodo]

Absolutely.

Particularly the last part about customer reciprocating.

I'll gladly spend a little more money in a shop for equal ingredients and equipment if i know the dude that is running the store knows or atleast has a passion for his product.

Nothing ***** me more when you go into a store for advise only to discover you know infinitely more than the owner.
I'm looking at you Dick Head Smith Electronics.

Went into my local the other day as i could have sworn he sold some brewing salts. Didn't know about any of the major salts at all. Black and Yellow everywhere. Total knob.

EDIT: Maybe it's just me, but in this world of internet everywhere, i think there's no excuse for not being able to do some research and at least discover new products or brewing methods that may help your business.
I used to work in the music equipment retail industry, and when customers weren't in the shop, the manager and i would constantly be on the net researching and looking at all kinds of new gear to further our knowledge.

^ This!

One of my other hobbies is car audio. Over recent years I've seen numerous stores close down including chain stores. This has been mostly because a.) online pricing. b.) guys who weren't concerned about a few cents here and there but more interested in getting the product they wanted and EXPERT advice have been able to find better advice online for free with no pressure to spend. Then when the time does come to spend they usually end up at supporting vendors stores (or mail ordering) because they know they can trust these vendors.

Two things happen. A.) the expert vendor that wasnt online often ends up shutting the doors because they arent as well known as those that actively advertise and support and participate in online forum discussions. B.) the "box movers" end up just doing more of that. Moving boxes - mostly of crap because now they have to be cheap because they have no decent advice and if they arent cheap thire customers will buy from ebay.

Its not just HBS though either. Hardly Normal is feeling the effects of the evolving market place. These "old school" guys dont like it and they are fighting tooth and claw for things not to change. Mean while the "Kogans" are taking the rug from under them on price (and seemingly customer service) whilst the specialist stores need to opperate swiftly because the information online advising customers to better products that they may other wise not have known of - these stores need to swoop in make the sale without baffelling with ********. The hard part about this is that the internet is a place where people can effectively publish anything, so that "forum advice" isnt always right. Forums suffer from "flavour of the month" syndrome where certain products get the lime light where other products would be better due to demographic bias etc.

As for the home brew shop in frankston - **** it. It was **** house anyway. In all honesty I think home brew stores generally need a bit of a shake up with POS marketting. Perhaps some expert planogram planning needs to take place. Most home brew stores are rabbit warrens. A new brewer wants to grab a product, read what it is, what its used for, how to use it etc. I'd bet we've all had times (particularly early in our brewing career) where we looked at something and went "wonder what that does". If clear marketing had been used we may have bought it. Professional looking labels - not something that looks like it was printed on a dot matrix printer and stuck on a dusty package in dads back shed 10+ years ago and its sat on the shelf ever since.

Have a small 1/2 sized batch 3V brew rig on display. It doesnt take up a huge amount of room but it could spark interest. Maybe with a story board on what it is what 3V brewing is, pictures and alternatives (BIAB or that auto whats its name thingy)
Like wise how many brew stores do you look in where they have fermenters on shelves all around the shop, but no where do they display "package" pricing. Or worse how many home brew shops display no pricing at all.

Its not just HBS though - Try your local lawn mower shop. They sell lawn mowers, brush cutters, ride-ons, line, pull starts, blades etc. Yet most people go buy their new lawn mower from the big green shed because the local lawn mower shop is poorly lit, poorly laid out, uninviting to many people - especially women, prices are either not displayed and the store keeper rattles some price off the top of his head when you ask (which always makes you feel as if he gives different customers different prices depending on if he thinks they are a wood duck or not) or they are scribbled on with a sharpie with a barcode crossed off which makes you think they bought it at the big green shed and only sell it at an inflatted price because people sometimes asked and they didnt want to send more people to the big green shed. Whats with this current craze of "ask for a price!" or "ask for a deal" Seriously I'm window shopping I dont want to waste your time and I dont want to be hassled I just wanted a ball park figure on that 22HP Honda powered out front 26" deck ride on so I could budget a rough figure. But no I have to ask for a price get given a speil asked if I'm buying today or not heres the price but I wont write it down. Seriously WTF.


Get with the times. Advertise. Be welcoming. Have competitive pricing (that doesnt mean you have to have the lowest price it just means your pricing has to be competitive). Dont bitch about the box movers cutting your lunch. Lay things out well. Good lighting. Ambient music - nothing more awkward that browsing the shelves of a small store with no back ground music whilst the store keeper sits behind the counter peering over at you coughing occasionally and making your uncomfortable being in the store as if you're wasting their time. Good advice. Freindly - but without being "clicky" with regs, this makes many newbies uncomfortable asking beginner questions.

 

[Bribie G]

Probably way off topic

Background: I spent 15 years as a rep for Allens Sweets then Rothmans, with various territories, calling on small businesses and smaller IGA type supermarkets, snack bars, delis etc. It may just have been a result of the recession we had to have, but it struck me that most people over the age of 40 running a small business were there because they had bought themselves a job with their reduncancy payout from whatever they had been doing, and were only interested in working the business to make a living, but not necessarily to give great service or expand the show.

Also, they were taking over an existing small business and, as sole operators, vulnerable to being crowded out by more energetic and cashed up franchised chains. For example the middle aged couple flipping limp burgers and serving instant coffee would suddenly find a Maccas or a Hungry Jacks opening up the road and within a few months they were gone.

However, an energetic person would open a Burger Licious gourmet wood fired pizza and burger joint in the shadow of the Maccas and do very well ( not being ageist, the woodfired guys could be old)

It's all churn, churn, churn. Apart from the brew by you phenomenon I don't see any churn happening in the home brew business, just same-old stores (equivalent of flipping limp burgers and serving instant coffee) hanging on and declining and the more energetic players like MHB and CB taking over more and more of the market. May you live to see interesting times B)

 

[bum]

Probably way off topic

Maybe. Hard to say.

All depends on how tightly tethered to reality one may be... :blink:

 

[DJR]

A bit OT here, but if i go into a shop again and I ask someone what something does or if it is a good product and they read the blurb on the back of the packet, I am going to lose my **** with them. Maybe i visit the wrong shops!

 

[DJR]

Also, they were taking over an existing small business and, as sole operators, vulnerable to being crowded out by more energetic and cashed up franchised chains. For example the middle aged couple flipping limp burgers and serving instant coffee would suddenly find a Maccas or a Hungry Jacks opening up the road and within a few months they were gone.

However, an energetic person would open a Burger Licious gourmet wood fired pizza and burger joint in the shadow of the Maccas and do very well ( not being ageist, the woodfired guys could be old)

Quality, Consistency and Price/Value are key reasons we go back to visit a place, the first example of a limp burger and bad coffee shop had issues with Quality and Consitency but the price was OK - say what you like about Maccas and Hungry Jacks but they get Consistency and Price right in the eyes of most people, Quality is OK for what it is

Burgerlicious however would be good quality and consistent, price wise not that much more, maybe $10 or 12 for a lunch instead of $7 or 8 at a takeaway or large chain

Back to the issue at hand, bad LHBSs have no quality or consistency and bad prices so question is why are they still around