Another Brew Shop Closed

[alfadog]

Hey LRG.
Northern Brewing Supplies if you need a packet of dried yeast NOW. It's on Elphin Rd, just past the city park.
The other is "Charlie's Garden Center" @ Legana.

Nearest grain is in Hobart, prices are reasonableish and they can send it up for (IIRC) $8/bag.
Best place for us to buy grain (and bulk hops) is ITmechanic's BB's every couple of months. (Legend!)


.

Thanks for that Spork, I may be migrating south soon too, good to know there is a bit of activity down that way

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Thanks Spork.

Not sure if we're moving in the next 2-3 months or so, it'll depend on a lot of stuff.

But one has to make sure that can carry on brewing, regardless. I like to be prepared for these things - it is very important after all.

Might need to get me a mill of some sort - I always buy from CB, they mill it for me for free and the per kg price of my base malt is so cheap (and 25kg of bulk grain so long to use) that I've not yet participated in one here.

Cheers,

Goomba

 

[Brewers Choice]

At the risk of incurring the ire of AHB members, I thought I would chuck in my two cents worth. LHBS come in for a fairly regular caning on this forum, particularly over stocking mashing supplies. Some of it is well warranted - those store owners that are not interested in doing more than keeping a counter warm, are bad for our industry. However, there are many more that would eagerly look for opportunities to grow their business through sale of product to AG-ers. It's far more interesting and challenging than selling bottles of essence, or a tin of Coopers to someone who gets his wife to buy the sugar from Coles!

But it is a chicken and egg problem - AGers want fresh grain and hops (as well they should), but how many of you in the thread above have said that you only visit your LHBS when you need emergency supplies! A pallet of grain costs $2000 - it's a big risk for many stores to buy in fresh grain in the hope the someday an AGer will walk in. Liquid Yeast has a shelf life of about three months - probably about the time between visits by some brewers. Fresh hops come in 5kg packages - that's a lot of 60gm bags to sell before they go stale. Cans and essences, on the other hand, can sit on the shelf for a year or more before they go off! If you don't support the store regularly and work with the owner, then they will not take the financial risks to stock the products you want.

We have five stores and can afford to carry AG supplies - bulk grain, 22 types of fresh vacuum packed hops, liquid yeasts and an incredibly cheap AG Starter Kit, but this has been grown over several years of considerable expense. Even then, although Enoggera, Wacol and Chapel Hill carry all these items, we still can not risk rolling out all those products fully to the other two stores - we would have too much that goes off and is not fresh. Do that, and sure enough there will be another post on AHB saying the LHBS does not carry much and the stock is old.

So, if you want to have LHBS stock your product, you need to be faithful to them, educate them where necessary (store owners do not know everything and learn as much from their customers as from forums) and work with them to get what you want. Don't support them and they wither and die.

 

[Parks]

Good post David (I assume).

It's no different to a lot of other shops who have to work out their pricing. "Do I bulk twice as much to save $$$ and risk not selling it".

I love going into the Chapel Hill store for a chat with Tony who is always keen.

I don't think there is any real answer. I am really happy to see the effort that Brewers Choice has made over the last few years to be more accommodating to "us" - shows you are listening. That is the first step

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Fair call mate.

My only argument to this, is that when the LHBS do supply AG stuff (or even hops for K&K and AG brewers), they should be doing so at prices that are at least somewhat competitive, or in quantities that we actually use.

I noted online that BC sell hops in 60g lots (and I often go through more than 60g in a brew), for around the same price as I can get a 90g packet (retail, not bulk buy that is) from my usual shop. That's approx 50% more. If my brews cost me 50% more across the board, I start thinking about giving it up.

Ironicaly my yeast costs me less (if I can get it) from the LHBS and not the retailer that I normally chose, so obviously there is some tolerance to little more on one item, if another is markedly cheaper.

I understand your chicken & egg argument, but maybe a little more competitive prices, service (even if it's the old adage of making someone feel welcome in your shop, even if you can't help them because they know more than you), and engaging with the community more (such as more community/forum interaction like CB/MHBS/Nev from Gryphon, BIAB demos like G&G and so on) might help. That way, you aren't relying on a silver bullet to suddenly do the deed.

The other bane to the industry is the metho-heads that own a shop, purely to get a tax deduction for supporting their distillation activities.

The most local LHBS to me specialises in this, and the people that (appear to) own it are rarely sober, and I daresay not distilling correctly (judging by the higher order alcohols that have snuck through the still and into their cups, and subsequently their brains).

 

[bignath]

At the risk of incurring the ire of AHB members, I thought I would chuck in my two cents worth. LHBS come in for a fairly regular caning on this forum, particularly over stocking mashing supplies. Some of it is well warranted - those store owners that are not interested in doing more than keeping a counter warm, are bad for our industry. However, there are many more that would eagerly look for opportunities to grow their business through sale of product to AG-ers. It's far more interesting and challenging than selling bottles of essence, or a tin of Coopers to someone who gets his wife to buy the sugar from Coles!

But it is a chicken and egg problem - AGers want fresh grain and hops (as well they should), but how many of you in the thread above have said that you only visit your LHBS when you need emergency supplies! A pallet of grain costs $2000 - it's a big risk for many stores to buy in fresh grain in the hope the someday an AGer will walk in. Liquid Yeast has a shelf life of about three months - probably about the time between visits by some brewers. Fresh hops come in 5kg packages - that's a lot of 60gm bags to sell before they go stale. Cans and essences, on the other hand, can sit on the shelf for a year or more before they go off! If you don't support the store regularly and work with the owner, then they will not take the financial risks to stock the products you want.

We have five stores and can afford to carry AG supplies - bulk grain, 22 types of fresh vacuum packed hops, liquid yeasts and an incredibly cheap AG Starter Kit, but this has been grown over several years of considerable expense. Even then, although Enoggera, Wacol and Chapel Hill carry all these items, we still can not risk rolling out all those products fully to the other two stores - we would have too much that goes off and is not fresh. Do that, and sure enough there will be another post on AHB saying the LHBS does not carry much and the stock is old.

So, if you want to have LHBS stock your product, you need to be faithful to them, educate them where necessary (store owners do not know everything and learn as much from their customers as from forums) and work with them to get what you want. Don't support them and they wither and die.

Very well put. I have been one of the many detractors (spelling?) about the problems with many HBS's when these threads pop up. I also posted earlier in this one.

It's posts like this that i think, should give us brewers (consumers of your products) something to think about.

But, i also agree wholeheartedly with this comment from LRG......

My only argument to this, is that when the LHBS do supply AG stuff (or even hops for K&K and AG brewers), they should be doing so at prices that are at least somewhat competitive, or in quantities that we actually use.

My local dickwad homebrew shop, stocks his hops in 15g bags, and wants $5-6ea for them. That's fucken ridiculous.

I just put an order in to Beerbelly (no affiliation, but thanks Amanda) for several 100g packets of hops that i've never tried before, for maybe an extra $2 per 100g as my local knob is selling for 15g.

**** that.

Unless you only want to cater for the extract (canned to be specific) crowd, who the **** is gonna just go in and buy hops in 15g lots....

I live 500k's away from Beerbelly, and as i'm halfway between Adelaide and Melbourne, will assume a relatively similar distance to G&G. Haven't used G&G before admittedly but i hear good things. Have however used CB before, several times in fact.

I think that speaks volumes about the attitudes of the "average" (or below average) LHBS when someone would much rather spend their money paying freight from 500k's to "however far Capalaba is" from me, than frequently the local guy who is less than 5ks away. (Mt Gambier is a small town).

It's a tough one, because stores like your's - Brewers Choice, are i guess, trying so hard to win over other forms of brewers, and get caught in the middle of the **** fight, whilst our local stores that couldn't give a ****, blatantly show no interest in changing.

Sincerely glad to hear from a previous poster above me (Parks), that you and youre store is heading in a very good direction to cater for all types.

 

[Deebo]

I think another problem is most AG ingredients probably aren't all that profitable?

If I buy a sack of grain for $60 and some bulk hops, a big container of starsan and a few yeast and kettle finings the brew store probably makes a small amount and then they wont see me for months. Though I guess that is still profit they wouldn't have made had they not stocked those items.. but they would need the extra space for grain and freezer space for bulk hops etc.

But why would they do this is they make more profit selling 'essences' that take up less room and are more profitable?

 

[Wolfy]

So, if you want to have LHBS stock your product, you need to be faithful to them, educate them where necessary (store owners do not know everything and learn as much from their customers as from forums) and work with them to get what you want. Don't support them and they wither and die.

OR conversely ...

If the LHBS wants my business they can stock the items I wish to buy, at prices compatible to other places (including online), then if they offer resonable and helpful advice I might be more interested in shopping there.
However, if they want to concentrate on distilling, plant growing and stock only tins of goo, they'd better hope that the people who buy those products continue to do so.

I think another problem is most AG ingredients probably aren't all that profitable?

It may be that - as Brewers Choice pointed out - not only do AG brewers want specific products but they want them fresh. Combine that with the limited number of AG brewers, it's probable that those needs can be catered for by only a very small number of shops in each major population center. If you live in other places you'd have to put up with less than fresh products, delivery costs, or travel yourself to one of the shops who has the stuff you want.

 

[dago001]

I support the local brew shop as much as possible. He sells mainly kits and tinned malt with some ldme. He was great when I started offering some advice when he could, but his main business is a health food shop. I only really buy yeast from him, but always drop a few beers in when I can. He can get me grain if I need it, but it takes a bit of time. I understand also that there are only a handful of AG brewers in my area, so don't expect him to stock grain. I occasionally will do a kit/partial which I buy from him. But in reality I would only spend maybe $20.00 a month, as he doesn't stock much variety of yeast.

OT :icon_offtopic: To those that are looking to move to Tassie (Launceston?) - Hobart has a couple of brew shops. One of which I have never used and the other was alright for a while, but I no longer use them, due to a personal issue with the owner. There is quite a few AG brewers here and more seem to be starting all the time. We openly welcome any of you Northerners who want to come here and brew.
Cheers
LagerBomb

 

[pk.sax]

We openly welcome any of you Northerners who want to come here and brew.
Cheers
LagerBomb

Careful what you wish for.... lol

Back OT, I paid 50% more than I would've with Online retailer to the LHBS for some finings, fully knowing the fact, but the fact is, the LHBS bothered to get it in on the recommendation of customers. Its a once in 10 brews kinda purchase, I can deal with that.
Also, I'd happily pay a $1-2 extra for a packet of liquid yeast to pick it up locally. But screw paying 50% extra when you need it that often.

The fdact that CB & G&G go through that much and manage to keep prices competitive is that they advertise, they participate in discussions and they have a system of pre-orders, including over email. Take Pat Casey for example, shop regional area, he does a WYeast pre-order, bothers to ring the customer before sending the final order off, has a decent range of stuff he stocks or can get in. Regardless of never living near his postcode or in the same state, I ordered my first WYeast from him.

There will always be retailers that take initiative and those that just complain, whinge and burrow deeper into their can stacks.

 

[Zizzle]

I think the LHBS have the wrong business model.

If you are struggling with low product turnover and the online guys are eating your lunch, then why not take the hint?

If you can't beat em, join em.

Put a catalog online, offer competitive prices and decent service and build a reputation. Extra turnover from online sales would mean that it makes sense to buy in bulk and have fresh stock.

For a good gimmick, do what a lot of the US retailers do, offer flat rate shipping. Price it so that you win sometimes, lose sometimes, but mostly win. morebeer offers free shipping on orders over $60... guess where I shop most often.

People are social creatures. I'm sure the (enjoyable?) effort that some retailers put in here being jovial or offering advice pays back in spades.

Complaining that AG brewers don't come in enough or aren't loyal enough or whatever the excuse is just doesn't cut it.

 

[leahy268]

First of all far be it for me to go off about all LHBS.
I learnt to do these things from a LHBS. He had good solid advice and reasonable stocks of most things.
He closed(Marriage breakup, 2nd store that failed) and so forth.

The complaint I have is about the current only one and others like him.

But it is a chicken and egg problem - AGers want fresh grain and hops (as well they should), but how many of you in the thread above have said that you only visit your LHBS when you need emergency supplies! A pallet of grain costs $2000 - it's a big risk for many stores to buy in fresh grain in the hope the someday an AGer will walk in. Liquid Yeast has a shelf life of about three months - probably about the time between visits by some brewers. Fresh hops come in 5kg packages - that's a lot of 60gm bags to sell before they go stale. Cans and essences, on the other hand, can sit on the shelf for a year or more before they go off! If you don't support the store regularly and work with the owner, then they will not take the financial risks to stock the products you want.

Yes but I won't go into your store if you don't have it. Certainly not if you don't have any advice worth me talking to you.
Guarantee though if you have good sound advice for me.

So, if you want to have LHBS stock your product, you need to be faithful to them, educate them where necessary (store owners do not know everything and learn as much from their customers as from forums) and work with them to get what you want. Don't support them and they wither and die.

Educate HA!! My LHBS owner already knows everything there is to know.
Hence why he lost my business.
If he had been more interested in my business then he would still have it.
But when it's cheaper for me to buy my things from Brisbane including freight. (Including Brewers Choice, been a customer before)
And when the advice is useless or non-existant and the owner doesn't believe you can do anything a different way.
(I know of a lot of people up here who also refuse to go into his shop because of his attitude.)
How can you blame us for going elsewhere?

My attitude with this guy is now I don't care if it costs me more to get my stuff elsewhere I refuse to walk into his shop.

 

[wessmith]

G'day Darren,

I'm pretty sure Coopers was/is supplied by Joe White, who did at one stage sell direct to the public but then stopped in favour of distributing through LHBS.

What I can't say is whether they're still producing the malt you're referring to.

Cheers!

Andy

JW may very well be the supplier today but back in the '90s it was Barrett Burston that indirectly supplied the crystal. Adelaide Malting Company (AMC) had the main supply contract for Coopers. They had a sort of roaster that produced a good roasted barley or roasted malt but not crystal. BB had a very good roaster (a German Barth unit - same as Weyermann use) but had had a fire in their afterburner that treats the fumes and smoke from the roaster at high temps. BB chose not to repair the unit so were restricted to crystal production only, so AMC and BB did a swap deal on product. The labels on the bags never changed. BB did eventually repair the afterburner and last I heard, the old AMC roaster was producing a special roast barley tea substitute for Japan.

Wes

 

[manticle]

things

Mate this is a good post and good to hear a different/alternative perspective.

What you say makes sense.

However I guess the difference between your store and many of those that get caned here is not just that AG is not massively catered for, it's that many of those who staff such stores have no knowledge of, nor interest in brewing methods such as AG.

If you have a customer who is interested in AG or who has been brewing it for a while, I doubt, based on your post that you or your staff would discredit it as a waste of time or try and push kits or out of date yeast on said customer. Even suggesting 'we can order that in for you if you give us some notice' will meet a better reaction than ' why would you want to do that ****?' Unfortunately these are real responses that some, including myself have had from some homebrew shops.

People don't, generally, cane a shop for not supplying the full range of grains and liquid yeast etc that are available here in AU. People, most generally crap on shops with bad advice and uninterested staff who also stock limited, out of date products.

I'm guessing that since you are actually interested in what a fairly small number of people think about home brew retailers and based on what you have written above, that you are not one of these people.

People will always shop where the balance between convenience, cheapness and availability of desired product is achieved. I'm guessing, to you as an experienced retailer, that's like me trying to teach my grandma to suck eggs and I apologise but showing interest in your clients does distinguish you from most HBS who are harshly, and often rightfully criticised.

 

[pike1973]

I'd like to class myself as a regular in the Wacol Brewers Choice store and every time I enter the store James says, How you going Adam as soon as i enter . I love it . He knows what he talking about, AG and averything else and he is never to busy to help me out, be it crack some grain at a seconds notice or help me out with a recipe. This is why I will always keep coming back . If all LHBS were this good the world would be a better place.
Just my 2c.
Thanks Adz.

 

[pk.sax]

If you don't bag the idiots the good shops suffer from loss of noob business. Additionally, the bad ones turn away people who might be interested in brewing good beer because they follow the bad advice and make **** beer and never brew again.

 

[Fish13]

speaking of this Geraldton u brew it is closing/has closed.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

I am afraid its survival of the fittest.
I see the stupid prices being charged by some in store retailers and wholesalers and think WTF ???
Hey if they want to send themselves broke by out pricing themselves.
Big problem is when their wholesaler has them by the balls and is robbing them blind.
I feel for the buggers. I wouldnt open a door front or deal with a wholesaler unless I wanted to go broke.
We kind of do our own thing and like to develop our own product range I believe this is the way for our survival
Nev

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

speaking of this Geraldton u brew it is closing/has closed.

Just like Disco's and flares.

 

[Fish13]

Just like Disco's and flares.

about time?