Another Brew Shop Closed

[bignath]

LHBS get a lot of support and so they should, but the simple fact is that are those that just push product (usually Kits) out the door and those that really are part of the scene. Grain and Grape in Melbourne and Mark's Home Brew in Newcastle are two prominent examples of Brew Shops that are full of enthusiastic and knowlegdeable people (and thats just the customers !), of course there are many others.

G and G , MHB and others have supported this hobby for a long time, and their clients have reciprocated.
The hobby continues to grow.

K

Absolutely.

Particularly the last part about customer reciprocating.

I'll gladly spend a little more money in a shop for equal ingredients and equipment if i know the dude that is running the store knows or atleast has a passion for his product.

Nothing ***** me more when you go into a store for advise only to discover you know infinitely more than the owner.
I'm looking at you **** Head Smith Electronics.

Went into my local the other day as i could have sworn he sold some brewing salts. Didn't know about any of the major salts at all. Black and Yellow everywhere. Total knob.

EDIT: Maybe it's just me, but in this world of internet everywhere, i think there's no excuse for not being able to do some research and at least discover new products or brewing methods that may help your business.
I used to work in the music equipment retail industry, and when customers weren't in the shop, the manager and i would constantly be on the net researching and looking at all kinds of new gear to further our knowledge.

 

[DJR]

When I moved up here to the blue mountains, my LHBS was a 10 min drive away, Pat had a shop at Faulconbridge. Was yet another great reason to move here... He closed that shop about 2 and a bit years ago now, so now I go down to St Mary's, or Pat just lives up the road from me in Lawson so drops off stuff when i need it (thanks alot Pat if you are reading this )

Bribie is right, if we go to an average LHBS shop, ask to make an OK beer and get shown "use this kit X with this yeast Y" and it's just a kit with BE2/spray malt, a bit of hops and some yeast. What is to stop someone going over the road to Kmart/BigW and getting the same kit, spray malt and BE2 for a few bucks cheaper, and then just buying some hops, yeast or whatever they can't get at Kmart from the brew shop, or feeling like that's being a bit scummy to order such a small amount and dud the LHBS on the full sale, so order it online.

The brew shop who wants to actually survive then responds by generalising, e.g. big chain LHBS here are now doing beer, wine, spirits, cheese, jerky, sausages, coffee and more. If shops go down that path there may not be a huge amount of knowledge across all the product lines they offer, but it is a way to stay in business and provide many alternative revenue-generating products. Or they respond by specialising - going to higher levels of brewing e.g. AG which is where people like Ross and Pat excel, having more equipment e.g. stainless bling, alternative products, fresher hops than everyone else, lots of yeast etc

Not all people by a long shot that are into AG brewing or brewing in general are on this forum at all, but there is probably a fair few people who just look at the info and recipes as guests and never register. Even at that level the amount of information on here would be far more than an LHBS owner that has only ever brewed kits and that creates a massive problem for consumers of these outlets. If you are looking to an LHBS for advice and they are either ignorant, arrogant or worse still just plain wrong then what is the point... get your advice and ingredients online or some other place that cares.

Only issue with the amount of free information is that it does leave open the supermarket model to come in, set up a massive online brew shop and start dudding other brew shops, wholesalers or online retailers without really offering advice and just offering products. If you don't need to offer advice ala BigW or Kmart then what is to stop you setting up a shop that basically sells everything ingredients wise to homebrewers. But thankfully the thing that stops the big boys playing that game is the market is still quite small and the profit margins aren't really there to run a business beyond a pretty small operation. As opposed to the liquor industry as a whole, which is massively bigger

 

[the_new_darren]

Who do you think made their crystal malt Darren?

Wes

I dunno Wes,

I know I and my kids could eat it by the handful.

Was sweet as.

Who made it? Is it still available?

It must have been ~500EBC. Never saw anything available at that "colour" or sweetness since

tnd

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Gotta comment on this, but I will state, at the outset, that I'm a happy Craftbrewer customer. So all the *******, h8ers, and people wanting to take a pot shot can get their respective panties in a twist and go and look up a Victoria Secret catalogue and indulge their sick crossdressing fantasies there.

Okey dokey, that caveat aside.

My LHBS (not CB) has a "spiritual" friend there - indulges a great deal, as does his missus. I go there when the excrement hits the rotating cooling device and my yeast doesn't take (like that dodgy batch of notto a week ago).

I go in there, dude looks stoned.

I get a pack of US-05 (brewcraft version, thank you Dr. Google). He asks me if I'm brewing Little Creatures and which kit I'm using. Tell him I AG, he stares blankly at me. Looks over to his weevil infested overpriced uncracked grain bags and stares at me like I've spoken Klingon.

Other time, I'm in there with my mate when we're about to brew cider, ask the lady about the wine yeasts and their respective temp ranges (as I'm not going to temp control his cider over my beer), and she says "oh, love, I don't make wine y'know". Sniff.

I go into CB and ask "do you reckon in x beer style that x grain will work better than y grain?" (just to make sure my recipe is spot on). Get a sensible answer.

Repeat both negative and positive experiences 10x over.

Price has a fair amount to do with it too.

Simple other fact - the internet has given knowledge to anyone who can type something into google. These "old style" shops need to get with the program and realise that most people have the ability to choose. Even our K&K friends have chosen that method, rather than assuming that it's the only way to go about making beer. We can google on our phones. Had a mate never brewed before, bottling with me today (his beer), told him "punch abv calc into google" numbers went in, abv came out.

We are an information world. Provide the product and sound like you give a crap, and most will respect you for that.

Goomba

 

[kelbygreen]

you have it about spot on DJR and I see where you come from with big retailers. If they did open something up it would be hard for the little guys to compete. Although there wouldnt be much use in them unless they opened a online store or just set up in a major city or something as I doubt the profit would be there to open a store attached to say every woolies or something. They obviously found out that even selling kits in the store is not viable as if it was they would still have them on the shelfs. I dont think the retailers have to worry about the big guys yet. They make more money per item off the pre made grog then they would on the ingredients to make grog.

Its a hard game you even ask the retailers that are on this forum. They dont make as much as people think they do, They are competitive and they offer great service and advice. They like to hire brewers to work in the shops and they like to look after the loyal customers. I use Mark and I cant fault his service and advice, I always spend way longer then I need in the shop with him giving me info or telling me about products and how to use them or new things he is trailing to make brewing better, He has alot of knowledge and he seems to be in it to help brewers then make huge profits.

I am sure all the good home brew shops are the same and ordering online is not the same. Get into one of these shops its great I go in to pick up grain thats sitting there waiting but spend almost a hour in the shop talking about brewing. I mean if Mark had no passion for the game he wouldnt waste his time helping explain things to you.

 

[komodo]

Absolutely.

Particularly the last part about customer reciprocating.

I'll gladly spend a little more money in a shop for equal ingredients and equipment if i know the dude that is running the store knows or atleast has a passion for his product.

Nothing ***** me more when you go into a store for advise only to discover you know infinitely more than the owner.
I'm looking at you **** Head Smith Electronics.

Went into my local the other day as i could have sworn he sold some brewing salts. Didn't know about any of the major salts at all. Black and Yellow everywhere. Total knob.

EDIT: Maybe it's just me, but in this world of internet everywhere, i think there's no excuse for not being able to do some research and at least discover new products or brewing methods that may help your business.
I used to work in the music equipment retail industry, and when customers weren't in the shop, the manager and i would constantly be on the net researching and looking at all kinds of new gear to further our knowledge.

^ This!

One of my other hobbies is car audio. Over recent years I've seen numerous stores close down including chain stores. This has been mostly because a.) online pricing. b.) guys who weren't concerned about a few cents here and there but more interested in getting the product they wanted and EXPERT advice have been able to find better advice online for free with no pressure to spend. Then when the time does come to spend they usually end up at supporting vendors stores (or mail ordering) because they know they can trust these vendors.

Two things happen. A.) the expert vendor that wasnt online often ends up shutting the doors because they arent as well known as those that actively advertise and support and participate in online forum discussions. B.) the "box movers" end up just doing more of that. Moving boxes - mostly of crap because now they have to be cheap because they have no decent advice and if they arent cheap thire customers will buy from ebay.

Its not just HBS though either. Hardly Normal is feeling the effects of the evolving market place. These "old school" guys dont like it and they are fighting tooth and claw for things not to change. Mean while the "Kogans" are taking the rug from under them on price (and seemingly customer service) whilst the specialist stores need to opperate swiftly because the information online advising customers to better products that they may other wise not have known of - these stores need to swoop in make the sale without baffelling with ********. The hard part about this is that the internet is a place where people can effectively publish anything, so that "forum advice" isnt always right. Forums suffer from "flavour of the month" syndrome where certain products get the lime light where other products would be better due to demographic bias etc.

As for the home brew shop in frankston - **** it. It was **** house anyway. In all honesty I think home brew stores generally need a bit of a shake up with POS marketting. Perhaps some expert planogram planning needs to take place. Most home brew stores are rabbit warrens. A new brewer wants to grab a product, read what it is, what its used for, how to use it etc. I'd bet we've all had times (particularly early in our brewing career) where we looked at something and went "wonder what that does". If clear marketing had been used we may have bought it. Professional looking labels - not something that looks like it was printed on a dot matrix printer and stuck on a dusty package in dads back shed 10+ years ago and its sat on the shelf ever since.

Have a small 1/2 sized batch 3V brew rig on display. It doesnt take up a huge amount of room but it could spark interest. Maybe with a story board on what it is what 3V brewing is, pictures and alternatives (BIAB or that auto whats its name thingy)
Like wise how many brew stores do you look in where they have fermenters on shelves all around the shop, but no where do they display "package" pricing. Or worse how many home brew shops display no pricing at all.

Its not just HBS though - Try your local lawn mower shop. They sell lawn mowers, brush cutters, ride-ons, line, pull starts, blades etc. Yet most people go buy their new lawn mower from the big green shed because the local lawn mower shop is poorly lit, poorly laid out, uninviting to many people - especially women, prices are either not displayed and the store keeper rattles some price off the top of his head when you ask (which always makes you feel as if he gives different customers different prices depending on if he thinks they are a wood duck or not) or they are scribbled on with a sharpie with a barcode crossed off which makes you think they bought it at the big green shed and only sell it at an inflatted price because people sometimes asked and they didnt want to send more people to the big green shed. Whats with this current craze of "ask for a price!" or "ask for a deal" Seriously I'm window shopping I dont want to waste your time and I dont want to be hassled I just wanted a ball park figure on that 22HP Honda powered out front 26" deck ride on so I could budget a rough figure. But no I have to ask for a price get given a speil asked if I'm buying today or not heres the price but I wont write it down. Seriously WTF.


Get with the times. Advertise. Be welcoming. Have competitive pricing (that doesnt mean you have to have the lowest price it just means your pricing has to be competitive). Dont ***** about the box movers cutting your lunch. Lay things out well. Good lighting. Ambient music - nothing more awkward that browsing the shelves of a small store with no back ground music whilst the store keeper sits behind the counter peering over at you coughing occasionally and making your uncomfortable being in the store as if you're wasting their time. Good advice. Freindly - but without being "clicky" with regs, this makes many newbies uncomfortable asking beginner questions.

 

[Bribie G]

Probably way off topic

Background: I spent 15 years as a rep for Allens Sweets then Rothmans, with various territories, calling on small businesses and smaller IGA type supermarkets, snack bars, delis etc. It may just have been a result of the recession we had to have, but it struck me that most people over the age of 40 running a small business were there because they had bought themselves a job with their reduncancy payout from whatever they had been doing, and were only interested in working the business to make a living, but not necessarily to give great service or expand the show.

Also, they were taking over an existing small business and, as sole operators, vulnerable to being crowded out by more energetic and cashed up franchised chains. For example the middle aged couple flipping limp burgers and serving instant coffee would suddenly find a Maccas or a Hungry Jacks opening up the road and within a few months they were gone.

However, an energetic person would open a Burger Licious gourmet wood fired pizza and burger joint in the shadow of the Maccas and do very well ( not being ageist, the woodfired guys could be old)

It's all churn, churn, churn. Apart from the brew by you phenomenon I don't see any churn happening in the home brew business, just same-old stores (equivalent of flipping limp burgers and serving instant coffee) hanging on and declining and the more energetic players like MHB and CB taking over more and more of the market. May you live to see interesting times B)

 

[bum]

Probably way off topic

Maybe. Hard to say.

All depends on how tightly tethered to reality one may be... :blink:

 

[DJR]

A bit OT here, but if i go into a shop again and I ask someone what something does or if it is a good product and they read the blurb on the back of the packet, I am going to lose my **** with them. Maybe i visit the wrong shops!

 

[DJR]

Also, they were taking over an existing small business and, as sole operators, vulnerable to being crowded out by more energetic and cashed up franchised chains. For example the middle aged couple flipping limp burgers and serving instant coffee would suddenly find a Maccas or a Hungry Jacks opening up the road and within a few months they were gone.

However, an energetic person would open a Burger Licious gourmet wood fired pizza and burger joint in the shadow of the Maccas and do very well ( not being ageist, the woodfired guys could be old)

Quality, Consistency and Price/Value are key reasons we go back to visit a place, the first example of a limp burger and bad coffee shop had issues with Quality and Consitency but the price was OK - say what you like about Maccas and Hungry Jacks but they get Consistency and Price right in the eyes of most people, Quality is OK for what it is

Burgerlicious however would be good quality and consistent, price wise not that much more, maybe $10 or 12 for a lunch instead of $7 or 8 at a takeaway or large chain

Back to the issue at hand, bad LHBSs have no quality or consistency and bad prices so question is why are they still around

 

[Fish13]

:lol:
Nev

you mean reach around nev. gee nev. no wonder jyo is the pitcher

I support my local hb stores when nev isn't giving me good deals

My lhbs has just got right into it. She worked with the previous owner for a little while and then bought (iirc) and is right into it and has k & K and partial and carries grain too at my pushing and a few other local guys pushing. she also does the extract stuff too. she is also a b.o.p.

the other HBS is a bitsa shop. has essenances, bar gear and brew gear, some keg stuff too. will also get bulk bags of grain in too. hey they got me my 1056 too. was good.

i spread the love.

 

[Wimmig]

I don't think it's HB specific, but more reflective of the retail market. There are some products which sell more in such economic enviroments (such as coopers HB line). Though, for the most part the offering from the shops i have been to, on the whole, has been negative. And that's as a consumer, not someone who loves homebrew.

I've been to some stores which have interesting displays, etc, though they are pretty static. I think a little more of retail 101 needs to be applied to get the people in. The last time i enjoyed a HB shop, it seemed more like a family thing than anything else. They have a free bbq every sat out the front, informational displays inside. Always busy. They swap the malls butcher for beer, get the gas from m/10 (again for beer) to keep the costs down. The shop is full of people getting cans, discovering what grain packs do, to buying yeast which is not from under the lid and learning about what mashing is.

It's one thing to LIKE a product, or service, it's another thing to have a PASSION about it.

 

[Nick JD]

I'm a big fan of capitalism. The market will have her way.

 

[bum]

I don't think it's HB specific, but more reflective of the retail market.

While I agree that your broader point may be valid, I've been in the shop and it is most certainly retailer specific in the instance of the OP. Truly a shabby establishment.

They always had a fermenter going in their north facing shop window and their advice was on song with that.

 

[Truman42]

They always had a fermenter going in their north facing shop window and their advice was on song with that.

Yes I noticed that, it was always sitting on a heat pad. The best advice they ever gave me was when I first started out, that was not to buy the Coopers lollies as sugar is cheaper. He even gave me a free measuring jug.

 

[Andyd]

I dunno Wes,

I know I and my kids could eat it by the handful.

Was sweet as.

Who made it? Is it still available?

It must have been ~500EBC. Never saw anything available at that "colour" or sweetness since

tnd

G'day Darren,

I'm pretty sure Coopers was/is supplied by Joe White, who did at one stage sell direct to the public but then stopped in favour of distributing through LHBS.

What I can't say is whether they're still producing the malt you're referring to.

Cheers!

Andy

 

[SJW]

The wife went to get her hair done in Frankston on Saturday so I went along to get a quick trim. As womans hair always takes longer than mens, with colouring, straightening, idle gossip, and all that crap, I decided to go for a walk to Brew and grow around the corner to get a bottling wand and some crown seals.

But when I got there the place had shut down.

It seems to be the trend with home brew shops, and places like Coles and Woolies not stocking HB supplies anymore.

So is it that HB is a dying hobby, or is it more so that with online suppliers and the larger stores like G&G and KK selling more variety that these smaller shops just cant compete?
I would have thought that with BIAB and easier AG brewing, the hobby would be more popular now than it was say 15 years ago.

I can see a shop in Hallam being next as there is never anyone in that shop when I go and I only go there to get emergency supplies as its just around the corner from work. I would love to support the smaller guys but shops like Brew and Grow really dont stock enough variety and seem to only cater for extract and K&K brewers. (That is unless your hobby is to grow and smoke rather than brew and drink.)

Very interesting thread. I have no idea what it takes to run a retail store apart from talking to retalers about their shops.
As far as HB shops are concerned we are very lucky here in Newcastle when it comes to a great HB store.
I think money will always talk at the end of the day. The funny thing is the only shop (other than Coles, Woolies ect...) that I walk into a make purchases from is my LHBS. Everything thing else is bought on-line. Books, vitamins, motorcycle parts, motor oil, clothes, music, cycling clothes and parts, but I bought a Sthil petrol blower from a Sthil specialist and a pair of Richter loudspeaks from a Hi-Fi shop.
My point is there are some things that suit online sales and some things u just need to go into a shop and speak to a proffesional and try before u buy. Now HB works fine as an on-line shop but it is still nice to be able to walk in a chat, taste and see the products. I guess while not knowing why this bloke went out of buisiness maybe he should of moved with the times and got on-line and started selling there too?
Gone ar the days where some ol baby boomer can survive in a little HB shop selling a few cans, crown seals and a bench capper. All retailers need to move with the times and continue to raise the bar with QUALITY, SERVICE, PRICE and INOVATION, otherwise they will not survive in this open, worldwide maket we now have called the INTERNET.

Steve

 

[wynnum1]

What would the cost of rent be a week then cost of labor .

 

[komodo]

plus insurances plus stock plus interest on the loan you've taken plus tax every quater plus the cost of a book keeper & accountant plus services plus shop fitting plus advertising plus permits (if applicable) plus plus plus.

Nothing cleap about getting into retail

 

[Parks]

... plus tax every quater ...

You only pay tax if you make money