American Wheat Beer: Unhappy About My First Try?

[hupnupnee]

Hi all, :beer:

I brewed up a Seppo Wheat beer the other day. Here is the recipe

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 20.00 L
Boil Size: 22.89 L
Estimated OG: 1.049 SG
Estimated Color: 4.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 23.6 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
2.00 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (1.Grain 44.4 %
2.00 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (1.8 SRGrain 44.4 %
0.50 kg Munich, Light (Joe White) (9.0 SRM) Grain 11.1 %
15.00 gm Cascade NZ [6.40%] (60 min) Hops 11.7 IBU
15.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.40%] (10 min) Hops 7.6 IBU
15.00 gm Cascade NZ [6.40%] (10 min) Hops 4.3 IBU
1 Pkgs SafAle German Ale (DCL Yeast #K-97) Yeast-Ale


It has come out lovely and tart, with the usually wheat grainyness, however,
it has a rather harsh bitterness that lingeres on the back palate. The hops bill to me does not indicate that level of bitterness and the hops varieties are not the sort I would expect to result in such harsh flavours.

I'm a bit dissapointed and would really like to nail this style. It is drinkable and quite refreshing but far from great.

What do ya reckon?? <_<

Floculator

Tim

 

[tangent]

has it sat for a while, did you lager it, what in?
my latest wheat sucked for a few weeks but is a really drinkable brew now after 2 weeks in cold stainless.
Wheat beers need to be spectacular, otherwise the're very ordinary IMO.
(also i think K97 sucks arse)
3333 or 3068 rock!

Your recipe is very similar to the one i did.

 

[Kai]

K-97 has a bit if a seedy reputation, for an american wheat I'd be going something like 1010, 1007 or 1056. Not to say that K-97 is a bad yeast per se, but people do seem to have trouble with it from time to time.

I don't know what NZ Cascade is like, but normal Cascade is not my choice for bittering. However, at the small amount you've used I wouldn't be expecting any real harshness from the hopping either. Still, I'd go something smoother next time. Dare I suggest, Simcoe or Glacier?

 

[hupnupnee]

Thanks Kai and tangent,

It is definitly a very ordinary beer. I didn't cc it. I thought you didn;t need to cc wheat ales and that they drunk best when fresh. I'll take your advice and cc a couple of bottles and see if it makes any difference.
I'll also give the alternate yeasts a blast next time.

What do you think of the Nelson as a hops for the wheaties. I thought it would compliment nicley, now I'm not so sure?

 

[Stuster]

I have to disagree with tangent h34r: (gulp). I wouldn't have thought of lagering a wheat beer. Your grain and hop bill looks nice to me. I'd have thought NS would have gone well in this style. I think Tony made an all NS wheat which turned out well. It might be as Kai says, the yeast that is the problem here. I've never used K97 but using US56 next time might be the go. Kai hop choice is excellent too. :super:

 

[DJR]

Glacier? That's Kai's answer to everything. :lol: Go the Simcoe or get something noble.

NS can be a bit harsh if used heavy, late but you've only got 15g in that at 10minutes, i wouldn't expect that would cause too much. Is it just a harsh bitterness? Cascade isn't that great as a bittering hop since it's co-humulone levels are high, but you haven't used that much of it.

Feel free to send one of us a sample! :chug:

 

[hupnupnee]

DJR,

it is a harsh bitterness. It is not overly bitter just very resinous. Reminds me a bit of pine sap without the pine flavour and not astringent. If that makes any sort of sense.

The Cascade was a bit old about 5 months or so. It was stored in the fridge in one of Ross' special zip lock bags.

BTW how do the co-humulone levels effect bittering?

Cheers

 

[Stuster]

Very resinous? Sounds like it might be the NS. Maybe give it some time and it'll mellow out to your taste more.

Low co-humulone hops give a smoother bitterness.

Hops are best kept in the freezer rather than the fridge.

 

[blackbock]

Very resinous? Sounds like it might be the NS. Maybe give it some time and it'll mellow out to your taste more.

Low co-humulone hops give a smoother bitterness.

Hops are best kept in the freezer rather than the fridge.

In my experience most NZ hops are a bit "piny" or resinous tasting - NS being the most extreme example! If you don't like that one, it definitely won't mellow with age - NS gets more and more full-on as it ages.

Maybe stick to the noble hop varieties or their descendents for a more pleasant hopping experience...

 

[Ross]

Cascade is very resinous, piney & you've bittered with it & then mixed with a very unique winey, resinous hop in NS. I'm guessing The combo is one that's just not to your taste. I prefer using a light spicy hop for bittering like liberty & then just finish with a hop or combo you like the flavour of... cascade, simcoe, glacier, amarillo all work great...

cheers Ross

 

[DJR]

Next time for bittering try something which has a low co-humulone level, like Simcoe, Taurus, Amarillo, Glacier or something noble. That'll clean up the bitterness to a nice clean level. Avoid the resinous hops if it's a flavour you don't like - NS is particularly resiny in its profile. Simcoe used late can add that piney flavour, but it depends on the year. Next time maybe turn the hop schedule around, use NS and Simcoe to bitter with a 75 minute addition and then use the Cascade or something else like Amarillo, Glacier or Liberty for flavour/aroma additions. :chug:

You can also use noble hops in an Am Wheat and stay true to style - the usual suspects are good for that, Hallertau/Hersbruck/Tettnang/Saaz/Saphir...

 

[tangent]

I wouldn't have thought of lagering a wheat beer.

I know Stu, It wasn't intentional. I drank my wheat beer fresh and thought "great, here's another visitors beer! - FN wheat beers! " and didn't touch it for 2 weeks, then poured a visitor a beer, had a taste myself and Wow, that's better!
This one hasn't turned into a crystal weizen luckily although I added a good dash of yeast cake to the keg as well.

I suppose what I'm saying is 2 weeks at 0-1C in SS knocks the rough edges off anything. I'm not sure if it'll work with bottles but in the keg for sure.

Kai - you've worn me down - I bought some Glacier

 

[doglet]

I think a mix of Hallertau and Cascade will give you that noble/american balance. I've used the combination for both bittering and aroma in a brown ale and it tasted delicious. It'd be interesting to see how it goes in a wheat so I might give it a go next brew.