Alternatives To Gas Boiled Kettles?

[hughman666]

Hi all,

I'm at a bit of a crossroads. I love my 80L SS kettle and 4 ring burner but I'm not loving repeatedly getting the gas bottle filled (every 4-5 brews).

i also have a shiny keg ready to be cut open and converted to either a HLT or kettle. if i go down the path of using it for a kettle, my 80L SS kettle will become the HLT.

I've seen posts where people mention electronic boilers (with elements etc). does anyone have any opinions on these?

how efficient are they?
how long does a rolling boil take to get going?
how do you go about keeping the element clean?
what size element do you need (2400 watts?)

any other points i may be missing...

thanks!

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

Well, for 80 litres you'd need a lot of juice I reckon.

But, you are talking about using a keg now...

My keggle got rolling a lot quicker than I thought when the 2400w element was first used.

It's an immersion element (purchased from ESB).

Came to the boil in around 20-30 minutes...good? No idea, I don't have a burner, so as for if it is good I'd have no idea :huh:

PZ.

 

[hughman666]

i only go tthe 80L SS kettle because the wide diameter makes a great surface area for a quick rolling boil (10 mins) and quick cooling. i'm only doing single batches (~23L).

so how do you go about keeping the element clean? does any boiled wort get fused to it?

got any pictures?

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

Only used it twice to date.

Some whiteness to certain parts of it and it's not super-filthy...but again, it has not seen much use.

For a pic of the element (and possible problem using a wide kettle) see the second page of my "first AG away" thread currently in the Latest Threads section.

PZ.

 

[hughman666]

how much are those elements??

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

Mine cost $135, but I've since been told they can be had for considerably less if you shop around.

The fixed-in-place-near-the-base ones are a lot cheaper, but you have to consider what might happen if the kettle leaks, as they have a plug-in cable, not sealed That's why I went with the immersion unit

PZ.

 

[justsomeguy]

Hi all,

I'm at a bit of a crossroads. I love my 80L SS kettle and 4 ring burner but I'm not loving repeatedly getting the gas bottle filled (every 4-5 brews).

i also have a shiny keg ready to be cut open and converted to either a HLT or kettle. if i go down the path of using it for a kettle, my 80L SS kettle will become the HLT.

I've seen posts where people mention electronic boilers (with elements etc). does anyone have any opinions on these?

how efficient are they?
how long does a rolling boil take to get going?
how do you go about keeping the element clean?
what size element do you need (2400 watts?)

any other points i may be missing...

thanks!

I recently converted to an electric kettle. I fitted 1800 and 2400 watt elements to it and couldn't be happier. An electric element is much more efficient than gas as you have very little heat loss from the elements. Gas burners radiate a lot of wasted heat. Just stand next to your kettle and you'll notice how toasty warm you get.

I get 35 litres to a rolling boil in 50 minutes with both elements running. Once I have a boil I turn off the 2400watt element. Dunno how poeple can get to a rolling boil in 20 minutes with a single 2400 watt element. I certainly can't and I've got an insulated kettle. I ran some tests, and need to complete a couple more, but checked the temp every 2 minutes until I reached a boil to get a good idea of the time to reach any specified temperature.

The elements stay pretty clean though there is a little scale that appears once the element has dried out. No scorched or caremalised wort on the elements.

Only look at fitting elements to a kettle if you know what you are doing. Electricity is odourless. You can smell gas and see the flame so you know when its on. You can't with electricity.

Have a look at my site for more info on my electric system here

gary

 

[therook]

I got some prices on elements during the week

Thermal

Portable Immersion Heater - THESG3
1.25 BSP Hot Water Element - THE2227125R




Helios

Portable Immersion Heater - G3
1.25 BSP Hot Water Element - SM24




TOBINS

Portable Immersion Heater - 4108B
1.25 BSP Hot Water Element - 3039AG715


I am going to use the Hotwater element the same as Batz has his setup, a permenant fixing in his HLT and use the Immersion heater to get it to a faster boil.



Tobins were the cheapest, i was just about to order them when a customer said he would buy them for me.
Was one happy person :lol:

Rook

 

[user 384]

Hi all,

I'm at a bit of a crossroads. I love my 80L SS kettle and 4 ring burner but I'm not loving repeatedly getting the gas bottle filled (every 4-5 brews).

i also have a shiny keg ready to be cut open and converted to either a HLT or kettle. if i go down the path of using it for a kettle, my 80L SS kettle will become the HLT.

I've seen posts where people mention electronic boilers (with elements etc). does anyone have any opinions on these?

how efficient are they?
how long does a rolling boil take to get going?
how do you go about keeping the element clean?
what size element do you need (2400 watts?)

any other points i may be missing...

thanks!

Attached is simple spreadsheet that calculates the amount of time it will take to boil water depending on the size element you use. In the spreadsheet you can change the batch size, lement size and the efficiency. It's not 100% accurate due to some of the assumptions but is good enough to work out the elment you need.

Remember, anything over 2.5kw is likley going to need wiring greater than your standard domestic provisions.

Cheers
MAH

View attachment Watts.xls

 

[barneyhanway]

I have an electric kettle with one 3000KW element. I plug it into an outlet that used to power my old hot water cylinder so it handles the required load (15 Amps or so?) with no issues.
I love it, admittedly I've never used gas but electricity is a breeze. I get 30l of wort to the boil in about 40 minutes, I really need to insulate it so I'm expecting that time to drop considerably.
Cleanliness doesn't seem to be a problem at all, once I've finished boiling and draining I flush a bit of water through it (it has an outlet on the very bottom as well as one further up to drain the wort through) and use a dish brush to scrub off the hop residue etc. The element looks as though it gets an oxidised coating but remember you are boiling in this sucker, there isn't any need for it to be perfectly sanitised.
I just put the lid on it and its ready for the next brew session.
At the moment its doubling as my HLT, but I have another pot coming that I will wire up for the HLT, electricity is the ONLY way to go for an HLT in my opinion.

(edit) forgot to add that my element is fixed. Theres a standard size brass fitting that takes a hot water cylinder element, get someone to weld one in for you.

 

[agraham]

I reckon if you could hook up your burner to the gas supply at your house it would be cheap as to run it. You need to find a gas fitter to supply beer to, to get er done.

 

[crozdog]

I have an electric kettle with one 3000KW element.

Geez Barney, I'd hate to pay your electricity bill with that much grunt going into your boiler!! You must have some massive wiring in place to support the 12500amps it'd draw!! h34r:

Then again it wouldn't take long to boil a batch!

:beerbang:

 

[hughman666]

I reckon if you could hook up your burner to the gas supply at your house it would be cheap as to run it. You need to find a gas fitter to supply beer to, to get er done.

i wanted to do this, but i was told that you can't hook up a 4 ring burner to natural gas (or the 3 ring variety for that matter). can anybody confirm or deny?

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

I reckon you could and there would be a flame...but household natural gas pressure would be too low to work properly.

At least that's what I think

PZ.

 

[Blackfish]

I reckon if you could hook up your burner to the gas supply at your house it would be cheap as to run it. You need to find a gas fitter to supply beer to, to get er done.

I think he means big bottles of LPG (100L) plumbed into the house, which is interesting as I wonder about how much it costs to fill one of these compared to the equivalent in 9kg cylnders??

If your brewing regularly maybe it would pay over time?

anyone?

FHG

 

[Doogiechap]

More heresay (are there many gasfitters on the forum ?)
I know you can rekit a standard outdoor BBQ to NG and it's just a case of rejetting the taps so I don't see why the same can't be done to the taps on your 4 ring.
For my HERMS and HLT I have fitted heating elements out of dishwashers (curbside collected) both are 1800 watt. I have a timer switch to pre heat these ready for my brewday/ night and the HLT gets the 20 - 30 l of Sparge water hot enough after about an hour (36 L uninsulated allie pot) and since most mashes are 90 mins there is enough wattage for my needs . I'm interested too in providing beer to a nice gasfitter to plumb NG to my Shed for the same reason so please PM me if you find someone.
Cheers
Doug

 

[Jerry]

i wanted to do this, but i was told that you can't hook up a 4 ring burner to natural gas (or the 3 ring variety for that matter). can anybody confirm or deny?

hughman666,

I believe it can be done but the diameter of the jets (holes) need to be altered. I'm not 100% sure but I think the jets need to be increased in diameter for natural gas.

I have a vague recollection that I read about someone on this site having done it.

Scott

 

[barneyhanway]

croz, yeah caught me out there. 3KW, NOT 3000KW !
scary thought that...

 

[T.D.]

I'm pretty sure you can get mongolian burners that are set up for natural gas. I think this would be a really economical option. I still can't get over how cheap NG is compared to getting 9kg bottles of LPG. Even with heating the whole house with gas through winter the bill is still surprisingly low.

 

[agraham]

If you can get your barbie running naturals gas then i dont see how you couldnt with your 3-4 ring burner. Makes no sense to me having refill 9kg bottles for 20 or so bucks a pop. Any gas fitters want to take the bait and give us some pointers?