AHB Wiki: Balancing A Draught System

[delboy]

This is the discussion topic for article: Balancing A Draught System

 

[delboy]

kushti what did i do opps
any way this is a great artical and hats off to the auther.
10/10

delboy

 

[Cortez The Killer]

Might be worth listing metric resistances some where in the article for 4 + 5 + 6 mm

Cheers

 

[ntboozer]

Noticed the large 'stick on' thermometers on the sides of your kegs.
I've used the search engine but can't locate anything.
Where did you get them?
cheers
nt
:beer:

 

[Kingy]

craftbrewer.com

 

[lucas]

ok, so I've got ~3M of 5mm CobraPlus+ line between the keg and the tap, my fridge is at 5 degrees and the pressure is at about 100kpa. the tap is mounted a few inches higher than the top of the keg.

keg was partially carbed via "the ross method", and the gas has been on 100kpa since then. it poured fine the first two days but since day 3 I've poured nothing but foam. looking at the line it's full of beer (no bubbles) so I'm guessing that something is going wrong in the tap. I've tried both dropping the serving pressure (even with the gas fully off and the head pressure purged) and raising the serving pressure but I still get all foam.

Any advice what to try next? I hadnt thought it could be overcarbonated, but I just looked at the numbers in my brewing software and it says 2.6 volumes which is much higher than I thought it should be. I thought I'd worked it out previously and it wasnt so high but I guess I was thinking of something else

 

[Ross]

Lucas 100kpa is too high, 70kpa max. Your beer has just become overcarbonated. there is no gas in the line as it's in balance with the 100kpa pouring pressure.
time to open up the relief valve & give it a gentle shake - will probably take a day or 2 to come right.

cheers Ross

edit: & thanks for your ahb search plugin, top work, works great :super:

 

[lucas]

ok, the kegs out of the fridge to warm up a bit and try and fix this. finally got my chest freezer + new tap up and running so I was expecting a few teething issues

no worries re: the search plugin. I'm glad people other than me are finding it useful

 

[facter]

Okay ...

I have no idea what I'm doing now

I finally got my tap font installed that I bought from Craftbrewer ... I cant get the thing to pour any beer without it foaming .. and thats a waste of good Nelson ale!

Beer was force-carbed about four hours ago to 160 ... then sat around for a few hours settling ... I've tried pouring from pressures of anywhere between 70 and 130 - and still cant get it to pour properly. neer had this problem with my gun, which is now thankfully retired outside of parties ...but i just am not sure at all what I am doing. Fridge is at about 2c .. the line is the same length that was attached to the font (looks about 2 meters or so).


Any ideas?

 

[BenH]

100kpa is too high, 70kpa max.

Ross, I don't understand. 70kpa will only give 2.4 volumes at 4 degrees. This is too low for beer styles like lagers. Are you saying its overcarbonated, or that the beer line isn't long enough to sufficiently bring the pressure down at the tap?

I have my system balanced at 105kpa to give 2.8 volumes, and it pours fine. I have 2 lines of 5m of 4mmID line, one with a pluto gun and another with a party tap. The party tap pours slower than the pluto gun, but unless I've had too many and do a sloppy pour, it's all good.

 

[BenH]

Any ideas?

facter, have you changed the length of your lines?

Or, is your font & tap warm initially, and causing the foaming? You probably wouldn't have had that problem with the gun as the gun would have been kept in the fridge.

This is one of the reasons I'll be going for a flooded font... when I work out how I want my bar set up.

 

[Kingy]

if you want a gassier beer you need to lengthen your beerlines to accomodate when you rise the kpa pressure this is so the beer pours slower and doesnt foam up.

If your beer is foaming up reduce the pressure or personally id rather keep the pressure the same and just extend the lines as i like my beer gassy.

 

[Ross]

Ross, I don't understand. 70kpa will only give 2.4 volumes at 4 degrees. This is too low for beer styles like lagers. Are you saying its overcarbonated, or that the beer line isn't long enough to sufficiently bring the pressure down at the tap?

I have my system balanced at 105kpa to give 2.8 volumes, and it pours fine. I have 2 lines of 5m of 4mmID line, one with a pluto gun and another with a party tap. The party tap pours slower than the pluto gun, but unless I've had too many and do a sloppy pour, it's all good.

Ben,

i was responding to Lucas's question where he stated all was fine for a few days, but then went haywire. He also said 2.6 volumes was too high for what he wanted, unless i misunderstood. Sure, if he wants lagers then line length needs to be lengthened & the whole system brought back into balance, but for ales he needs lower pressure to bring his system back into balance.
i have my system set on 70kpa for ales & 110kpa for lagers, with the appropriate line length to each.
i tend to slightly under carbonate my beers these days by the quick carb method & then let them come into perfect balance over a few days connected to my system, as an overcarbed beer takes forever to get back into balance once connected.

Cheers Ross

cheers Ross

 

[facter]

facter, have you changed the length of your lines?

Or, is your font & tap warm initially, and causing the foaming? You probably wouldn't have had that problem with the gun as the gun would have been kept in the fridge.

This is one of the reasons I'll be going for a flooded font... when I work out how I want my bar set up.

.. no, i havnt changed the length of my lines. mind you, this is the very firt time that I have even used my new tapfont, I literaly jsut finished installing it this week so I've never used one before ... Im using the exact length that was provided to me (the font came with line) so im presuming that this was the correct length ...

both of ym beers should be around the 160 mark ... it has a split gas line running into both of them .. just cant get the thing to pour without foaming. hrmph.

 

[Ross]

.. no, i havnt changed the length of my lines. mind you, this is the very firt time that I have even used my new tapfont, I literaly jsut finished installing it this week so I've never used one before ... Im using the exact length that was provided to me (the font came with line) so im presuming that this was the correct length ...

both of ym beers should be around the 160 mark ... it has a split gas line running into both of them .. just cant get the thing to pour without foaming. hrmph.

Facter,

If you've carbonated your beers to saturation at 160 kpa, then they are going to be very over carbonated. The lines supplied with the font are fitted for your convienience & are a fine length for a standard ale pour. If you wish to serve highly carbonated beers, you will need to lengthen the line or fit flow restrictors.
Give me a call anytime day/evening & I can give you more detailed assistance.

Cheers Ross

 

[paul]

Facter, what size is the line that came with the font? Have a check to see that its 8mm od beer line and not 10mm. For the approx 3 metres of line to work it need to be 5mm id line (8mm od).

I have both of my taps with 3 metres of 5mm line and pour between 70-100kpa depending on the beer style.

 

[AndrewQLD]

This all sounds very complicated, when I keg my beer all I do is apply 260kpa of pressure for exactly 24hours with the beer at 6c. I then vent the keg and apply 80 kpa of pressure for serving. I have 3 taps and all have 2 mt of line. Every time I keg a beer the pressure is perfect after 24hrs. I get no foaming and no bubbles in the line.
Simple and fool proof.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[facter]

After talking to Ross yesterday it seems I have got my problem all sorted ... it does look like my beers were way too cabonated... the pils however is a little less fizzy than my liking, so I'm going to get a bit more line and extend one of the beer lines so that it can properly do pilseners as well as high carbed wheat beers.



thanks ross!

 

[reveler]

i've got two celli taps and I am picking up kegs/gas bottle this week and reading this has made me nervous.

I was planning on having friends over on Friday to christian the system, but sounds like I might want to ensure that I get it right myself first!

 

[drag]

i've got two celli taps and I am picking up kegs/gas bottle this week and reading this has made me nervous.

I was planning on having friends over on Friday to christian the system, but sounds like I might want to ensure that I get it right myself first!

Dont know how much you like your beer carbed, but the celi taps are far easyer to set up.
My side knob is horizontal to the ground & @ 100kpa. Nice head every time, except for the first pour of a new keg( havnt figured that out yet)
Definetly set it up the day before at least but dont have too many tries at the new toy before you plan on cristining it as you will run out.