Ahb Religion - Census 2011?

[Dave70]

But hey, lie on your census form, make stuff up, do whatever you like, doesn't worry me. Maybe if enough people do it, if enough people do it and we stuff future electrical capacity, don't blame me if rolling blackouts wreck a brew.

[/rant]

And don't blame me if you come home to a freezer full of beer, dairy and meat at room temperature.

I'm PRO NUCLEAR.

 

[user 384]

I think it should be obvious that their job (and democracy) requires them to hear from groups which represent society

This is the whole point, the ACL doesn't represent society, it represents a small segment of society. Yes 61.4% of respondents identified as Christian, but not all Christian's are alike and the ACL has a particularly conservative approach to Christianity (note there is a difference in respondents vs people, which is why you need to accurately describe your religious beliefs). Yes the ACL has the right to have its views heard. Yes the ACL has the right to be free to practice their beliefs. No, they don't have the right to have "Christian principles and ethics accepted and influencing the way we are governed". Having one religious belief used as governing principles naturally isolates other religious beliefs. This is not democracy, it is the politics of exclusion. Hence no gay marriage, even though the majority of people support the notion (estimated to be just over 60%).

But why do we have the situation where such issues as gay marriage can be disproportionately influenced by Christian activists?

The bigger the group the more time politicians will afford them.

No, because modern politics in Australia is played on the margins. There are rusted on Liberal and Labour supporters that politicians can count on, it's the swinging voter that they chase and pander to. Conservative Christians are one such group. They had a huge influence on the 2007 election, with large swings to Labour from Baptist and Pentecostal voters and large swings away from Labour in the 2010 election. But they are relatively small numbers so how could they have such influence? Because there were large enough numbers in marginal seats in Queensland and NSW to have an effect.

The joke about the watch and the lion doesn't apply here, because there is the equivalent of the lion. Large numbers of people want change on specific issues e.g. gay marriage (effectively the lion). But it is the Christian activists (the watch) who are having a disproportionate influence on policy. If there were not large groups of people looking for change then your analogy would hold.

Only a secular society allows for all people of all faiths (including no faith) to freely practice their beliefs.

 

[WarmBeer]

...Maybe if enough people do it, if enough people do it and we stuff future electrical capacity, don't blame me if rolling blackouts wreck a brew.

[/rant]

Take that you cheap-ass, electric driven, brew-in-an-urn hippies.

I'm'a keep on brewing with gas, just like like FSM intended us to.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

I can't be the only one who read that in Bender's voice.

 

[Hatchy]

I'm sure I'm reading this wrong but are you suggesting that areas with a high percentage of Jedis won't get electricity?

Thank goodness you guys know lots about making beer because you know stuff all about statistics and what the census is used for.

In parts of my job, we use it to help figure out where we will need future electrical power generation/gas generation and capacity.

On the whole thing of religion, I don't know, but perhaps some demographers look at it in conjunction with other things. Like immigration from X, Y and Z regions are as follows
10% of X
60% of Y
30% of Z
The religion question is then used to identify that
100% of X have a religion
20% of Y have a religion
1% of Z have a religion
Then the government knows that we can bring in a lot more people from Z so we don't piss off the anti-theist AHBers.

The whole "put down Jedi as religion" thing occurred at the last 2 censuses. Its been done to death.

But hey, lie on your census form, make stuff up, do whatever you like, doesn't worry me. Maybe if enough people do it, if enough people do it and we stuff future electrical capacity, don't blame me if rolling blackouts wreck a brew.

[/rant]

 

[drsmurto]

I'm sure I'm reading this wrong but are you suggesting that areas with a high percentage of Jedis won't get electricity?

It matters not young padawan.

When control of the force you have, heating water you can.

 

[iScarlet]

I've been led to believe that Jedi is as much of a legit religion as any other.

Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good brew at your side, kid.

 

[Pennywise]

I'm sure I'm reading this wrong but are you suggesting that areas with a high percentage of Jedis won't get electricity?

:lol: :lol: Bloody hell man, I was eating some lollies and just spat half of them out

 

[brettprevans]

Thank goodness you guys know lots about making beer because you know stuff all about statistics and what the census is used for.

In parts of my job, we use it to help figure out where we will need future electrical power generation/gas generation and capacity.

On the whole thing of religion, I don't know, but perhaps some demographers look at it in conjunction with other things. Like immigration from X, Y and Z regions are as follows
10% of X
60% of Y
30% of Z
The religion question is then used to identify that
100% of X have a religion
20% of Y have a religion
1% of Z have a religion
Then the government knows that we can bring in a lot more people from Z so we don't piss off the anti-theist AHBers.

The whole "put down Jedi as religion" thing occurred at the last 2 censuses. Its been done to death.

But hey, lie on your census form, make stuff up, do whatever you like, doesn't worry me. Maybe if enough people do it, if enough people do it and we stuff future electrical capacity, don't blame me if rolling blackouts wreck a brew.

[/rant]

I know a hell of a lot of what census is used for and use it often and am trained on the system. but you sir sounds like you work for NSW govt or Cth (ie...NFI). since when is essential services master planning based on religious status? not to mention that most govt departments dont really use census data for demoraphics and population predictions cause they dont agree with the modelling. I know for fact that at least 5 vic govt department dont.

now ive really stirred the mash I need to go as a noodly appendage is tapping me on the back telling me to get back to work so I can get out of here and listen to Jamil's Belgian special podcast on the train home


edit: i get yor talking about the other parts of the census that are used for govt planning. but we are talking about religion not any other part

 

[Kevman]

Actually this sums it up, put down whatever you like on your census form.

I know a hell of a lot of what census is used for and use it often and am trained on the system. but you sir sounds like you work for NSW govt or Cth (ie...NFI).

Since when would I work for the NSW govt from f#&*ing Victoria, in fact from a f#*&ing suburb of Melbourne.

No doubt we would defer to citymorgue3 superior census information gathering abilities due to him having the right "vibe", "I mean its like Mabo" despite the cold hard facts are sitting in my profile.

Also electrical and gas generation has only been privatised in Victoria since when Kennett privatised them in about 1994. Guess you must have missed (or are too young to remember) those newspaper articles.

So lets review the actual facts, I live in Victoria and involved in utilities industry somewhere. Seeing as it is privatised, I most likely work for a........private company. So I don't work for the commonwealth either.

Therein lies the crux. Information that is given can then infer other information.

As to what the religion question means, I don't know. What does the male/female question mean either? Perhaps with the religion question in conjunction with other questions means a whole lot, I don't know. Its not my area of speciality but some of the other questions are.

For those who replied on whether religion applied to power generation, I hope you were being obtuse otherwise I can only conclude you are just morons increasing their post count.

 

[Zizzle]

Since when would I work for the NSW govt from f#&*ing Victoria, in fact from a f#*&ing suburb of Melbourne.

For those who replied on whether religion applied to power generation, I hope you were being obtuse otherwise I can only conclude you are just morons increasing their post count.

Dude, what's with the attitude? Drinking infected HB or something?

Darren is that you?

 

[goomboogo]

Dude, what's with the attitude? Drinking infected HB or something?

Darren is that you?

It was funny when CM2 speculated the possibility of kevman (location; Lyndhurst, Vic) working for the N.S.W Government. Although, I may have misinterpreted CM2's point as his posts seem to be written in some form of code. Should I speculate that English is his second language?

A person working in the public service telling someone else they have NFI seems to be a case of 'people in glass houses'.

 

[Leigh]

Hiya Kev. Your post is mighty confusing, and is what links religion to electricity supply...

But reading back, I think I have deciphered!

Somebody said that they "don't fill out censusess " (is that the plural lol)

Kev said, "heck, don't fill them out and we don't know what electricity requirements there are?"

Kev also mentioned some potential use for religious data in the census which got confusing.

Then CM2 got obtuse and placed a Victorian in the NSW gov. Having dealt with some NSW and Cwth gov people, I know where he is coming from.

But back to you Kev, while locating power gen within communities is OK, not locating them there will do stuff all to security of supply...AEMO modelling and distributor planning takes care of that. Your type of work either delays the upgrades planned by them, or brings them forward (if orgs like yours put too big a supply in).

PS, I think I've got a meeting with your org next week to discuss some of these options Could be another similar org though lol

 

[Malted]

where's the god damn poll!!! ;P

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...ic=56728&hl=

 

[brettprevans]

1. to be fair - i didnt actualy bother looking at the guys location in the profile. what I took to be what sounded like a moronic post, to mean that he was from NSW or Cth.
2. he made a post about in a thread about religion and talked about us screwing up power supply if we messed around with filling out data. easily to assume he meant that somehow us saying we are pastafarians will affect power supplies in the future. Leigh picked it up. besides being a pastafarian means His Noodelness will always ensure there is power for brewing, so theres no issues
3. Kevman - gender actualy has a lot of uses in planning. esp in health, workforce planning, productivity and economic forcast modelling. but you apparently know heaps about census data, so youd know this already.
4. zizzle. yes i have infected homebrew. nice oud bruin and 100BrettC cider. but no it wasnt being drunk at the time. no attitude. oh and post up some more pics of you touring on the bike. those shots are amazing.
5. Goomboogo - some of us public servants work fkn hard long hours for fk all pay. some are dead weight and we wish we could get rid of. just like every industry.
6. gutted but not suprised. Mr Shorten from ABS doesnt even get whata pastafarian is.

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...ic=56728&hl=

woohoo
we loves a good poll on AHB

 

[TasChris]

No doubt we would defer to citymorgue3 superior . ...snip...

I agree, a huge improvement over the out dated City Morgue 2, especially the inferior model.

cheers
Chris

 

[jimi]

This is the whole point, the ACL doesn't represent society, it represents a small segment of society. Yes 61.4% of respondents identified as Christian, but not all Christian's are alike and the ACL has a particularly conservative approach to Christianity (note there is a difference in respondents vs people, which is why you need to accurately describe your religious beliefs). Yes the ACL has the right to have its views heard. Yes the ACL has the right to be free to practice their beliefs. No, they don't have the right to have "Christian principles and ethics accepted and influencing the way we are governed". Having one religious belief used as governing principles naturally isolates other religious beliefs. This is not democracy, it is the politics of exclusion. Hence no gay marriage, even though the majority of people support the notion (estimated to be just over 60%).

But why do we have the situation where such issues as gay marriage can be disproportionately influenced by Christian activists?



No, because modern politics in Australia is played on the margins. There are rusted on Liberal and Labour supporters that politicians can count on, it's the swinging voter that they chase and pander to. Conservative Christians are one such group. They had a huge influence on the 2007 election, with large swings to Labour from Baptist and Pentecostal voters and large swings away from Labour in the 2010 election. But they are relatively small numbers so how could they have such influence? Because there were large enough numbers in marginal seats in Queensland and NSW to have an effect.

The joke about the watch and the lion doesn't apply here, because there is the equivalent of the lion. Large numbers of people want change on specific issues e.g. gay marriage (effectively the lion). But it is the Christian activists (the watch) who are having a disproportionate influence on policy. If there were not large groups of people looking for change then your analogy would hold.

Only a secular society allows for all people of all faiths (including no faith) to freely practice their beliefs.

What could possibly be your basis for your assumption that Christians represent a disproportionate number of swing voters?
Ballots don't include religious affliation data and the census doesn't include details about your voting history!

You claim that while Christains statistically appear to be a considerable percent (you state 61%) but are a minority because every Christian is an individual is a moot point as it could rightly be claimed of every group, the consequence of this flawed logic is that you would expect politicians to seek audience with 20 million odd voters directly rather than communicate via demographic groups - I don't think this is possible

There is a saying in law & politics ; "votes are counted not weighed" meaning that you can't weight/value any vote more than another. Politicians who pursue the vote of a minority at the expense of the majority will simply not last. I alluded to the growing strength of the aged/pensioner group, a group who many would assume to be a more prone to the "rusted on" alliance as they have literally a greater history with their politicial groups. This groups has won considerable benefits of late (rightly so IMO), not because they can be known as swing voters but because they are a significant and growing number. Agains - votes are counted not weighed.

The joke analogy holds, but you misunderstand it - I probably should have explained it in mathimatical terms. The absence of a lion (absence of political change) is a 'dependant variable' the product of many 'independant variables' (history, legislation, finances etc etc and yes the influence of 'many' different social/political groups). The joke is funny as it should seem obvious that there are other factors in play in keeping lions away other than the watch. I'm afraid this also appears to be the common mistake of those who think religion is having an undue influence in the political realm.

We agree that people should answer the census accurately and we agree that a secular society best allows people of every religious persuasion to be able to live according to their beliefs.
We seem to differ in that you don't believe that our society is secular as it is claimed to be in our constitution and I do.