Ag Or Keg?

[troopa]

Going AG is far easier then youd think.. getting kegging money out of SWMBO is far more difficult then youd think
Id go keg and start playing round with BIAB or read some of Butters posts on his cheaper then logically possible setup

Tom

 

[Aaron]

I must be in the minority.

I'm the same. I have been all grain brewing for five or six years and am happily bottling. I had all the kegging gear at one point but decided to stay with bottles and sold it all again. I would say go al grain first. My experience was that my beer improved dramatically when making the jump.

I'm not saying anyone shouldn't use kegs just that bottling isn't that bad.

 

[Screwtop]

Up to you................better beer now.................or easier packaging now.

Screwy

 

[buttersd70]

You dont have to start AG or kegging with all the bling as long as your system works. Once you get started on either, you can add bits as you can afford.

Yeah, same point applies for the kegging....how long have I been running off $8 bronco taps, now?...... think it must be about 2 years (ish) saying I'm going to upgrade to cellis. :lol:

Muckey and I have a standing joke....I use $8 picnic taps as my sole tap solution....every time he comes over, I pour him a perfect beer, and say "sorry about the crappy pour"... :lol:

Max makes a good point about trying AG beers.....and Muckey makes a good point about wether you are happy with what you're producing at the moment. Look, theres pros and cons on both sides, and everyone will have different opinions based on their own experiences....in my case, I was at the point of full extract brewing before it even came up....and theres less of a leap between extract and AG than there is kit and AG.....and ironically, I've started to do more stuff in bottles lately, so I can have more variety, cos I can only fit 2 kegs in the fridge.....so it's all a matter of what will work for you.

But as far as going to AG.....it's only really worth it if you've got a handle on your cold-side technique. Otherwise you'll just be trying to polish a turd.....if you're ready to move on, then you're ready...if your kit beers are tasting wrong to you, because you're looking for something better (as opposed to bad management of cold-side techniques, ie yeast helath and fermentation controll), then move on to that....

sorry for the rambles. They're Hobgoblin induced....

 

[Sammus]

AG for sure. Kegs is convenience. I have kegs and I AG. I have started bottling more than kegging, but I'd never go back to kits.

 

[Spartan 117]

If spending is an issue I'd put it down to what you already have. With AG all you really need most likely is a bigger pot and a mash tun, the mash tun can be made for under $50 if you look around and the pot can be sourced cheaply again if you look around. Where as if you are going to move onto keg you need a working fridge, kegs, regulator, gas, beer line and a faucet of some sort.

If it was me I'd go AG first as in some situations it's cheeper and then move onto kegs when the spendings recover. ]

Also as someone said before, better to drink AG from a bottle that kit from a keg.

Good Luck

Aaron

 

[manticle]

Unless the AG is bad AG. Whichever method you choose you need to make sure it's done well.

Echoing what I said earlier and what butters suggested too but it should not be overlooked. First step is making good beer, properly. Next step is making better beer, still properly. Final step is making good beer properly and more easily.

I might shut up now.

 

[technocat]

I went kegs and filtering about a year before jumping into AG brewing. I found a big improvement in my beer. Now before anyone goes off the deep end I will qualify that statement by saying I don't like residual yeast in beer, nor do I like cloudy beer. To be honest I have bottled beer and kegged from the same batch and found the kegged beer shits all over the bottles. If bottles and all its inherent labour is your thing I don't have a problem with it, I went through the same phase for years and kegs for me was a quantum leap forward, and as with AG brewing another great leap forward in the quest for making great beer. During the past year at considerable expense I have been quietly working away on my brew rig to refine the method of making beer. I guess it all boils down to where you want to go first.

Cheers

 

[mckenry]

AG for sure. Kegs is convenience. I have kegs and I AG. I have started bottling more than kegging, but I'd never go back to kits.

Kegs for sure. I have kegs and I AG. Bottling is a pain in the arse. I'd never go back to bottling. :lol:

 

[buttersd70]

Unless the AG is bad AG. Whichever method you choose you need to make sure it's done well.

Minor anecdote....

The absolute 100% worst beer I've ever had (excluding infections) was an AG beer. Poorly concieved, poorly executed. Horrid. Nasty. Ferrel. Uggh. No apparant infection, just....nasty. Badly concieved recipe, totaly unbalanced, very, very poor cold-side control. I can actually taste it as I describe it....ugh.

(not mine, btw h34r: )

 

[Mattese]

I'm on the verge of trying my first AG. I've been in a similar position, however I started on kegs as soon as possible. Scrubbing bottles, sanitizing them, filling... You know the drill. It pained me

I'm really looking forward to now trying to perfect a beer to put into them!!

 

[warra48]

What do you believe is really your priority?

Doing your best to advance your brewing and making the best beer you can, or the convenience of serving from a keg?

I'm a pretty basic AG brewer. I spend 5 to 6 minutes at my MillMaster (my most expensive piece of equipment) to grind about 5 kg of grains. I use a 25 litre cooler as a mashtun, and a 40 litre aluminium stock pot as my kettle. I use a TempMate to control my fermentation temperature. I'm more than happy with what is really a fairly basic system. Bottling a batch only takes about 1 to 1 hours, and that's if I do it in stubbies. Shorter if it's longnecks. I really don't mind doing it.

On the flipside, whenever kegs are recommended, we rarely hear about the stuffing around with CO2 gas, lines, fonts and taps, and the inevitable cleaning of all that equipment. Does kegging really save that much time?

For me, making beer I love is my priority, and I'm happy to keep bottling.

 

[muckey]

Minor anecdote....

The absolute 100% worst beer I've ever had (excluding infections) was an AG beer. Poorly concieved, poorly executed. Horrid. Nasty. Ferrel. Uggh. No apparant infection, just....nasty. Badly concieved recipe, totaly unbalanced, very, very poor cold-side control. I can actually taste it as I describe it....ugh.

(not mine, btw h34r: )

bad brewing practice is bad brewing practice no matter how you try and polish it. and butters is too much of a tighta*se to upgrade his gear to a nice shiny tap on his fridge and keeps insisting on handy me those shoddily poured pints from that bronco tap h34r: .

but seriously, I'm glad I spent time through kits to nail the cold side of brewing before moving to AG. I think I brew far better beer now than I ever have ( leave it alone butters :lol: ) but I honestly dont see why you cant have both if you are a little patient and thrifty with what you get. You dont have to purchase everything in 1 go for example bribie bought and filled his kegs weeks before the rest of his keg setup arrived. Butters got his AG setup by being vigilant on forums etc.

why does it even have to be a choice?

 

[muckey]

On the flipside, whenever kegs are recommended, we rarely hear about the stuffing around with CO2 gas, lines, fonts and taps, and the inevitable cleaning of all that equipment. Does kegging really save that much time?

takes 20 min to wash keg and lines and another 10 minutes to rack a brew into a keg.

does take a bit of time to setup initially but use a calculator and your almost there. Once it's balanced the first time there's nothing further to do.

I'll admit gas is probably the bigggest ongoing expense with kegs.

Simply put, kegging, like bottling isn't exclusive. As butters said earlier some brews still get bottled and some kegged

 

[geoff_tewierik]

I went kegs before AG. I haven't done a kit beer since the early '90's, and was starting from scratch again.

Worked out good for me as I ended up doing a couple of wort kits to fill my kegs (which still have beer in them), and did my first AG on my own system two weeks ago. Just waiting on a new fermentation fridge (actually a kegerator) to ferment it, and then all three kegs will go into the kegerator.

Cheers,

GT

 

[Bribie G]

I went kegs before AG. I haven't done a kit beer since the early '90's, and was starting from scratch again.

Worked out good for me as I ended up doing a couple of wort kits to fill my kegs (which still have beer in them), and did my first AG on my own system two weeks ago. Just waiting on a new fermentation fridge (actually a kegerator) to ferment it, and then all three kegs will go into the kegerator.

Cheers,

GT

When you die and go to heaven there will be a 3 keg Kegerator on every street corner. When you die and go to hell, only Satan has a Kegerator, in his private office

 

[Maxt]

Another point that really came out when I was doing the BJCP course some time ago, was how easily beer can be skunked and/or otherwise compromised through exposure to light. If your stored beer is copping sunlight it won't be good for long (In my experience).

As for kegging, You can also control the effects of oxidisation more if you transfer and keg properly. This goes a long way to making your beer better (especially over time).

I think Butters was also mentioning the importance of fermentation and yeast etc. You can do AG without temp controlled fridges but it's hit and miss, and you are a slave to the seasons (Ie Lagers in winter, and forget fermenting anything in summer in your 45degree shed..unless you can keep up the frozen drink bottles every few hours).

 

[bowie in space]

I drink bottled extract beers.

After reading on this site for nearly a year now plus reading various books, the AG path seems to be the obvious choice after extract and mini mash brewing. I've brewed hit n miss kits, have become better since extracting and am over the moon at going AG next month when my birthday rolls around. I am going the BribieG model of a 40L Birko urn and BIAB, and can't wait.

Until reading this post however it seems that AG can turn very ugly, now I am having second thoughts about the priority of my set up. Cash being the major issue with my progress.

My priority is currently;

1) AG BIAB, followed very closely by
2) Chest Freezer with temp control for fermenting
3) Esky for a "proper" mash tun using the urn as my HLT
4) Kegging

I don't mind cleaning bottles all that much, but have to ask the question, is kegging an extract beer going to satisfy my taste buds more than a bottled AG beer?

Although I am pretty set on my intentions, it certainly looks like I'm going to have to research a little more...

Bowie

 

[Zwickel]

for me it is a simple question, wether to drink good beer from bottle, or not so good beer from keg.

Of course, drinking good beer from keg would be optimal, although the WAF (= wife acceptance factor) has to be considered.

Cheers :icon_cheers:

 

[buttersd70]

Bowie,
fwiw, my take on your order is as follows...
1/ something (fridge, freezer, swmbo getting up at all hours of the night to swap the hot/cold bottles, to avoid a beating... :lol: ) to control your ferment temps.
2-4/ everything else in no particular order.

2c.