Advice For Going Ag

[boingk]

Hello again everyone. This post is different for me, and its not a mundane question on hopping or extracts or yeasts.

Its about the Dark Side. I can feel it calling me... *cue Darth Vader theme music*

Anyway, from my point of view I reckon I'd like to have a shot at BIAB. I've got extremely limited funds, but I don't mind paying for something that will work well and keep on doing so. I have no idea if I'd want to do double batches or not but I suspect with the time involved for a run I would eventually want to. Here come the questions:

1 - How big is too big for a kettle? A place near me sells industrial cookware, with a 120L(?) stainless going for less than three yellowbacks.

2 - What burner am I looking at? Is there any stand-out option?

3 - I'd like to hear your best bit of advice on the issue, whatever it may be.

Cheers - boingk

 

[sinkas]

you are joking right?

 

[enoch]

The questions are good ones which make me think of the mega systems some folk are putting together for their first AG versus the fairly cheap and staged system that I have grown over 10+ years.

What boiler size is too big?: I currently have a 100 litre aly, which replaced a 70 litre bucket of death (BOD) which replaced a 30 litre BOD. Really I would be fine with an 70-80 litre boiler as I only have a 60 litre fermenter which I put 55 litres into. Why do I do 55 litres? Because I moved to 45 litre kegs and like a bit to bottle for going out.

Burner is an Italian with a medium adjustable reg. I was sorely tempted to go electric again but the speed of a 10-12kW equivalent burner was like a crotch to a sniffer dog at the big day out.. I have an immersion element in my HLT that I mean to use in the boiler to save gas.

MLT: I started with a 25-30 litre esky with no drain which I put a copper minifold in with a standpipe with a hose on it to syphon the wort out with. Was about five years befor I went to a 45 litre esky and more recently a "55 litre" Willow which is more like 45 litre to the hinge! I'm currently eyeing off the 12 gallon copper in the back yard as the next MLT.

HLT: until recently have heated water in the boiler and moved (later pumped) up to an esky HLT. Now have a 50 litre pot with immersion element and a mashmate.

My advice is to start smallish (but none of that BIAB or no-chill heresy h34r: ) and work out what works. Get doing your AG on the "cheap" and upgrade as you develop. I really wonder whether the folk who slowly putting together perfect systems find the wedding night a bit of a let down. So many AG opportunities missed along the way.

 

[matti]

You should go for a minimum 50 L kettle.
70L is good and leave room for double batches.
A good thick bottom a must.

A burner that can boil 50L Italian spiral burner or Rambo burner with medium regulator is ideal.

Best advice is to do your research and make the choice selection for your own need.
Alway leave room for upgrade.
(You might want to move on from BIAB later in life.)

 

[Pat Casey]

1. The first thing to work out is how to cool the wort, then work backwards from there.
2. Keep things physically manageable. There will be things to lift and hot liquids to transfer. You want to be in charge of the process, not it in charge of you.
3. Do not forget the importance of fermentation.

There is no virtue in a poorly produced all grain wort which is then poorly fermented, a double batch of it would just be stupid.

Pat

Absolute Homebrew

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

Questions for you:

• Is it about making beer, or making beer machinery?
• Do you have money to burn for this or are you looking to do it for cheap?
• Are you inclined to get all religious about method and process? (like enoch )
• Are you aware of the increased time commitment with grain brewing?

If it is about making beer without spending your kids' inheritance, you can start cheap with BIAB and NoChill. It is easy to migrate to multi-vessel systems with freon-chilling and what-have-you if you decide later on. I reckon that if you build a system slowly, you will probably end up with a better end result than if you go out and get it all at once.

Consider buying/using a syphon. If you brew a couple of batches and decide it isn't for you, you still have an intact pot you can sell to people other than homebrewers. If you really get into it, you can install a tap later.

Size *is* important. My system is based around the happy coincidence that 20litre Willow water carrier NCCubes are a good fit for Bunnings water drum fermenters. My kettle is the exception being a 75litre aluminium pot, but I've never had a boil-over. If I was more inclined to do double-batches, I would probably prefer a slightly bigger kettle.

Decide early if you want electric or gas. When I brewed electric, I wondered what I was missing. Now that I am an obligated gas-burner, I know what it was and wish I was electric again... But, both have their down-falls.

Pat Casey's remark about fermentation is important, as is sanitation. If you do not have these things down to a fine art, you will only see disappointing results.

 

[Ronin]

you are joking right?

Sorry couldn't resist...

Look, if I were joking I would've said, "what do you do with an elephant with three balls? You walk him and pitch to the rhino." :lol:

On topic...I'd say 120L for a kettle would be fine. My preboil volume for a standard batch is 32L, which is with a quite high evaporation rate of just over 16%. I have a 60L kettle which leaves heaps of space for boiling (boilovers have happened though). 120L should easily be able to do double batches.

I have a 4 ring burners, which I think would struggle with boiling a double batch in a decent time without a regulator upgrade.

I think what sinkas was getting at was that there are heaps of threads out there with lots of advice already.

Just do it.

James

 

[boingk]

My advice is to start smallish (but none of that BIAB or no-chill heresy h34r: ) and work out what works. Get doing your AG on the "cheap" and upgrade as you develop. I really wonder whether the folk who slowly putting together perfect systems find the wedding night a bit of a let down. So many AG opportunities missed along the way.

Don't worry, theres not going to be anything extravagant about my setup. I'll probably be looking at a pot, a burner and maybe a copper chiller as I have 12ft of 1/2" copper tubing lying around doing nothing. I kinda like building from the ground up so I'll see where it takes me. And 12kW burner? Thats nuts, I'm going to have to see one of those in operation...guessing it chews the gas though?

Best advice is to do your research and make the choice selection for your own need.
Alway leave room for upgrade.
(You might want to move on from BIAB later in life.)

I probably will, yeah. At the moment I'm just venturing into the game after 40 kits and bits, extracts and partials. Currently my only bit of equipment is an 8~10L stainless pot, which I've used to do up to 1kg partials and extracts.

[1]Is it about making beer, or making beer machinery?
[2]Do you have money to burn for this or are you looking to do it for cheap?
[3]Are you inclined to get all religious about method and process? (like enoch )
[4]Are you aware of the increased time commitment with grain brewing?

Decide early if you want electric or gas. When I brewed electric, I wondered what I was missing. Now that I am an obligated gas-burner, I know what it was and wish I was electric again... But, both have their down-falls.

Pat Casey's remark about fermentation is important, as is sanitation. If you do not have these things down to a fine art, you will only see disappointing results.

1: Beer. Machinery is nice, but you can only get a good result from it if you use it well.
2: I'm fresh outta uni, into the worst job market in ages. Cheap is good. I don't mind centring my Ag setup around a few quality items, however there will be no hectik-eletrik do-dads in this at all.
3: Method and process are awesome. By the way, my actual name is Enoch
4: Yes. Currently I spend maybe half an hour to 45min to put a brew on. I'm budgeting 4 to 5 hours for an AG brew.

As for electric and gas...I'm guessing gas gives you best control and lightning fast output response and the expense of fuel consumption. Electric...no idea on electric. Slower heating, more readily available power?

Cheers - boingk

EDIT: Cheers, ronin. Yeah I will do it, I just don't want to make a complete balls-up by rushing in. Yes, there are threads out there and I've read a few, but I had just a few questions I wanted to ask. As for sinkas, I've utilised the 'Ignore User' function.

 

[Ronin]

EDIT: Cheers, ronin. Yeah I will do it, I just don't want to make a complete balls-up by rushing in. Yes, there are threads out there and I've read a few, but I had just a few questions I wanted to ask. As for sinkas, I've utilised the 'Ignore User' function.

I rushed in...it worked out OK. I do have a microbiology background which really helps though. I'm going to try and get my sister to try all grain soon so I'd be interested in how minimalistic you can be starting up.

How do you ignore someone?

 

[boingk]

You can ignore any users posts by moving your cursor over their name on the lefthand side of one of their posts. Click, and a dropdown menu appears. Select 'View Member Profile'. From there you can choose to ignore a users posts, block PM's, and other things.

Cheers - boingk

 

[sinkas]

Although you may be ignoring my input, the fact remains, you began this thread showing that apart from locating a cheap pot, you had put no effort to research or even any evidence you had thought about your OWN questions on your own with no help from mummy and daddy for a split second.

I beleive that you should give as good as you get on this forum, given that the info is right here, and it must be embarrasing for you to be so crippled so as to not be able to access any of it.

 

[boingk]

You may be interested to know that I can read a post of yours at will by selecting 'Unblock Post'.

Chill out, sinkas. Theres no point in attacking somone over the net, zero. The fact of the matter is you don't know what research I've done, and I take it that you think I'm some sort of skirt-clutching kid that sucks up cash from my parents. You're mistaken.

As for being crippled so as not to be able to access any information, I've read what I could find on the issue here and still had a few questions. I didn't, however, find anything which dealt with a pot being too large for a single batch. Somone has now answered that question, and my burner one. Looks like I'm fine now, thanks to the kindness of others who have taken the time to answer a few simple questions I had as opposed to, short, snappy posts with no relevant information or discernable objective (other than to irritate somone).

As for 'giving what you get', I'd say that doesn't extend to personal remarks or anything else to the detriment of the AHB members. So I'll be quiet.

- boingk

 

[enoch]

Religious differences aside I think SpillsMO is on the money.
Actually BIAB is probably OK as a step but I could never see that it was a much easier or cheaper option particularly on larger batches.
No chill - I like doing it all in the one session. I'm sure it works for folk who do it it's just not for me.

3: Method and process are awesome. By the way, my actual name is Enoch

I think we have had this discussion before (or there is another Enoch here) because it's on my birth certificate too.... :icon_chickcheers:

 

[razE]

Mate for single and i think (someone correct me if im wrong) double batches a 45L esky is the way to go + 30 dollers for a ball valve and some copper piping, I have a 60l boil kettle which seems to be a magic size for single batches and could fit a larger batch for sure and i use a rambo burner that i brought from craft brewer which works perfectly. Without adding up numbers and including my mashmaster thermometer etc I got away with with my set up for under 500 dollers! Also for starting in Ag i found this site to be the easiest read to gather the basics http://www.beerdude.com/howto_brew_allgrain.shtml

 

[Jakechan]

Also for starting in Ag i found this site to be the easiest read to gather the basics http://www.beerdude.com/howto_brew_allgrain.shtml

+1

Great site. Just try and get such concise to the point info from Jon Palmer's online book (that everyone always recommends), it just aint in there.

Cheers,
Jake