Adjusting Water Chemistry?

[onescooter]

I am frowning upon myself right now but no-one ever told me I needed to worry about mash PH. So, up till now I have never checked it,adjusted it, and so on.
Seeing as though most of my beers are light coloured beers, what is generally the best way to adjust the chemistry of my Brissy tap water?
PH 5.2 stabiliser?
Brewing salt additions? And where do you get them from?
Acidulated malt? How much?
Using tank water or spring water?

Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks
Scott

 

[Stuster]

All of those methods of adjusting water chemistry have merits. It's partly depends on what water you have (and so what you need to do with it), the beer you are making (especially it's colour), and your own choice of method. All can work fine.

To start you need a water report for your tap water. It should be easy to find with a quick google, or one of the locals might chime in with some info.

Second, I'd go to How to brew and read chapter 15. Hot line to there.

Download Palmer's spreadsheet and plug in your water if you want to adjust it using chemicals (which is what I do).

If you use 5.2, you really can just add that. It depends on what kind of water you have how well it works.

If you use acid malt, I'd love to know how to calculate how much to add. I've never seen good info on how to work this out. Just seems to be trial and error. :huh:

For tank or spring water, you can either get it analysed ($$) or just have a wild guess and use trial and error from there.

 

[matti]

I think you should get a brissy town water from local council.
I am sure there are people here who has a profile.
As for pale malt mashes you need to adjust the ph either by PH 5.2 or acidualted malt like the Germans do or simply add some cara pils
or melanoids to the malt and a longer mash schedule I.e 90 minutes

How much? that depends on you water profile.

Sydney water is relative soft already but 2-3 g calcium chloride help to get through the buffers on my local water to get a good mash.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

All of those methods of adjusting water chemistry have merits. It's partly depends on what water you have (and so what you need to do with it), the beer you are making (especially it's colour), and your own choice of method. All can work fine.

To start you need a water report for your tap water. It should be easy to find with a quick google, or one of the locals might chime in with some info.

Second, I'd go to How to brew and read chapter 15. Hot line to there.

Download Palmer's spreadsheet and plug in your water if you want to adjust it using chemicals (which is what I do).

If you use 5.2, you really can just add that. It depends on what kind of water you have how well it works.

If you use acid malt, I'd love to know how to calculate how much to add. I've never seen good info on how to work this out. Just seems to be trial and error. :huh: I use acid malt regularly.Typically for a pils etc you will use between 2-5% of your total grain bill depending on your water profile.Any thing with some color malt I would start at 2%.Kunzes book I think has a actual scientific calculation.
Gryphon Brewing

For tank or spring water, you can either get it analysed ($$) or just have a wild guess and use trial and error from there.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Typically for a pils etc you will use between 2-5% of your total grain bill depending on your water profile.Any thing with some color malt I would start at 2%.Kunzes book I think has a actual scientific calculation.
Gryphon Brewing

 

[Stuster]

Good to know acid malt works well for you, GB. I'd probably just start with 2% here as Sydney water is so soft. I'd like to get the Kunze book, but a shortage of time and money mean that that won't happen this year at least. Shame there isn't something on the net about it.

 

[Jye]

Hey Scott,

As Stuster said have a read of How To Brew first and you can find Brisbane water report c=PC_1486" target="_blank">here</a>. It is generally low in calcium (23 mg/L) and it is a good idea to bump that up to about 50 mg/L for the mash, about 2g of calcium sulfate in a 15L mash. You can then continue to adjust your water residual alkalinity (RA) using calcium sulfate or calcium chloride and this will correct your mash pH. Use the nomograph on How To Brew to work out by how much depending on the colour of your beer.

I have been adding the brewing salts to my mash and also cheating by using 5g of 5.2 to make sure I hit the correct pH. The recommended amount of 5.2 (1 table spoon) is way to much and only need for extreme water Brisbane doesnt have.

You should be able to get brewing salts from any good HBS and I know that Craftbrewer has some but are not on the website yet. Tank water can be low in all salts and thought as very soft water, so think of it as a nearly blank slate and build it up from there. I also know a brewer who uses tank water and does nothing to it and produces outstanding beers.

Cheers
Jye

 

[goatherder]

Don't frown on yourself Scott (great name by the way), it's probably something you don't need to worry all that much about. As Greg Noonan says, if you don't know you have a problem with your water chemistry, you probably don't have a problem. The thing is, most water in Australia will be good for most brewing styles.

Mash pH and residual alkalinity are the keys here - Stuster's link to Palmer is the best resource on the subject. The truckloads of brewing literature (and internet posts) on matching famous water profiles really aren't that relevant and will lead you down the garden path.

Next time you brew a pale beer, take a small sample from the mash and cool it to room temperature. Measure the pH. If it's in the 5.4-5.7 range then your mash pH is spot on and you have no need to dick with your water chemistry. If it's higher than this range, then you can bring it down with some calcium salts (calcium sulphate/gypsum or calcium chloride as matti mentioned) or use a food grade acid (phosphoric or lactic). I'd recommend avoiding acidulated malt - it's essentially a Rheinheitsgebot compliant hack which Munich brewers needed in order to brew pale beers. Like Stuster said, it's trial and error to get the right amount and there are better alternatives when you are not constrained by archaic brewing laws.

Anyhow, my experience was that I got all excited about brewing water chemisty, learned shiteloads about it, got my water analysed and calculated the exact amounts of salts to add to my brew water. As it turned out, all but my darkest of brews didn't need any tinkering. I still check my mash pH on every mash though and adjust if necessary.

It looks like your Brissy water iis quite soft. You will probably need no adjustments except on the very pale or very dark end of the spectrum. Measure your pH and use some acid to adjust it down or some bicarb soda to bring it up for the dark beers.

http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:BRISWAT...9573c=PC_1486

 

[Jye]

got my water analysed...

Where did you get your water analysed? My suburb recently had a bore put in and the water is meant to be making up about 6% of the current supply. Ive heard that bore water can be much higher in minerals and would like to get the water straight out of my tap analysed.

Cheers
Jye

 

[tangent]

1st question Scott, does your beer suck, or do you love it?
If you love it, RDWHAHB :beer:

 

[goatherder]

Where did you get your water analysed? My suburb recently had a bore put in and the water is meant to be making up about 6% of the current supply. Ive heard that bore water can be much higher in minerals and would like to get the water straight out of my tap analysed.

Cheers
Jye

Funnily enough, at the the Clark Rubber store. They do pool water analysis for free. I asked for a sample of their analysis printouts and they included calcium hardness and total alkalinity. The lady was a little perplexed at the request but she quite happily ran the analysis for me anyway. I'm on tank water so I made the assumption that my sodium, chloride and sulphate levels were going to be low. You may not be able to make the same assumptions if bore water is a component. The calcium and alkalinity measures will certainly help if you want to calculate RA. I did find a commercial analysis lab on the internet which do the full suite but it was very pricey - over $100 from memory. Surely the entity responsible for your water supply is doing analyses of the final product, if only to check compliance with the national drinking water guidelines? Will they supply you with the details?

 

[goatherder]

1st question Scott, does your beer suck, or do you love it?
If you love it, RDWHAHB :beer:

And tangent manages to say in 2 lines what I tried to say in 20...

 

[Jye]

Will they supply you with the details?

I havent found anything online, guess I should just ring them.

Thanks for the Clark Rubber tip.

 

[onescooter]

On the question of whether the beer sucks or not. Sometimes I'm throwing the batch out. Tried everything in the cleanliness book and still was sour 1 out of 3 times. Was thinking that I had an infection, or not cleaned out the kettle or mash tun perfectly, or perhaps PH was out every now and then.
So my quest to get consistent brewing continues.
I have read the Palmers resource, although as he does not mention new products on the market, such as PH 5.2, was wondering if there was an easiest way.
I have been pretty interested in the malt way of going, mainly in a purist view, and I also have access to my parents tank water.
The majority of my beers are light coloured beers, so I would think that I would need to make adjustments.

 

[goatherder]

Sour generally means infection. Water chemistry won't help you there. The effects of having the water chemistry wrong will be quite subtle. Greg Noonan talks about getting "dull" hop flavours or mild "soapy" flavours when the pH isn't quite right. Definitely not sour. Have another look at your cleanliness regime - especially around your fermentation and bottling/kegging routine.

Try the tank water in your light coloured beers - I find with my tank water the mash pH is spot on without any adjustments.

 

[onescooter]

My final theory with my sour problem was that I was transfering the wort from my cube to fermenter at the wrong place and time. i.e. in he shed with two many airborne particles.
But in my research of possible problems I figure that continual improvement is a good thing, and if I can improve my techniques, my beers should follow.

 

[mika]

Sour in the fermentor, bottles, keg ? Transferring wort from cube to fermentor are you no-chilling ? and thus following the guidelines for correct sanitation of the cube ?

 

[Stabilo_Boss]

Great information, you guys are doing a whole lot more than I am.

Out of interest, when are you testing and what are you using to test?

I am assuming:

- boil water for the mash
- add water to the tun and extract some for testing
- cool it first?

Are you then using strips / meters? Is there a cheap alternative that is as good as some of the more expensive meters that I have seen around?

 

[Gulf Brewery]

My final theory with my sour problem was that I was transfering the wort from my cube to fermenter at the wrong place and time. i.e. in he shed with two many airborne particles.

Hi onescooter

Sour is nearly always a sanitation problem (except for when some people really over hop).

You need to check your sanitation at every step - especially if you are not pitching your yeast as soon as your wort is chilled (you mentioned a cube). If everything is not perfectly sanitised, then the bacteria will start multiplying before you pitch your yeast (I don't want to start a no chill bashing session here - there is another thread for that ).

If you are transferring wort and even a small amount is open to the air anywhere after boiling (including the kettle) - cover it with sanitised alfoil so nothing can get in.

Cheers
Pedro