Accidental No-Boil Berliner Weisse? - Urgent Help Appreciated (Dead el

[Engibeer]

I'll try and be as descriptive as possible with the short amount of time that I've got to sort something out.

• I'm in the middle of a mash - my element has died - mash BEERSMITH2 BIAB Pilsner mash
• Initial plan was a Saison
• Grains/Yeast as below:

Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4.00 kg ORGANIC Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (3.9 EBC) Grain 1 80.0 %
1.00 kg Wheat Malt, Ger (3.9 EBC) Grain 2 20.0 %
1.0 pkg French Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711) [50.28 Yeast 6 -


Mash Schedule: BIAB, Pilsner Step Mash
Total Grain Weight: 5.00 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Acid Rest Add 37.56 l of water at 35.8 C 35.0 C 5 min
Protein Rest Heat to 52.0 C over 15 min 52.0 C 15 min
Saccharification Heat to 63.0 C over 11 min 63.0 C 45 min
Saccharification Heat to 72.0 C over 9 min 72.0 C 30 min
Mash Out Heat to 78.0 C over 6 min 78.0 C 10 min

• During heating to Saccharification #1, the temperature reached 58.5deg and my element died!
• Mash has been at 58deg for ~30mins as at 2pm Today (total mash time 1hr 58)
• Planned to do a 60min Boil

What to do?

My current option:

• Decoct 5L and do a small boil to ~10IBU
• Add 4L of this back into mash, make 1L starter with 3711
• Cube the rest until down to temp
• Clean fementer, pitch starter

Other option - bugger the starter

• Decoct 5L and do a small boil to ~10ibu
• Add back into mash
• Cube and chill
• Pitch straight on to yeast cake of 3711 already in fermenter (closed) from saison kegged ~2wks ago

Any other options - suggestions - advice?

If the temp has now maxxed out at 58.5 what is the impact of that? Should I try and balance it by adding some boiling water to mash to 63-65 and do a bigger batch to lower the alcohol content in a more true to style berlinner weisse???

 

[NealK]

I would try removing all the wort and cleaning the crap off the element. Then test if it will work when it is clean. If it does then give it 45 mins at 63 and continue as normal from there. The element may be cutting out because of all the "stuff" that will get stuck to it during the protein rest.
I use an urn and biab but have never mashed lower than 63 because I am scared of this happening.
I hope it works for you.
Cheers
Neal

Edit 63 degrees not 33!

 

[potof4x]

You could borrow my (dodgey) element or burner if anywhere near maroochydoore?

 

[gaijin]

I reckon decoct enough to bring the mash to your next step temps then either;
- sparge and boil the rest off in batches on your stove, with the final pot full containing the hops or
- sparge and chill then keep for a day or 2 until you can find another element.

I did a quick google on a no-boil berliner-weisse and the result was "rotten vegetable soup".

It sounds like you are considering doing a no boil. I've done something similar which resulted in the beer obtaining the taste of cooked vegetable/nuts (caused by DMS). I wouldn't. Sounds like you know what you're doing, so apologies if I'm stating the obvious.

 

[Engibeer]

I have no idea what I'm doing

Just winging it, so all advice is appreciated! :beerbang:

 

[going down a hill]

What suburb do you live in?


Edit
Just checked on my PC as opposed to the phone which doesn't give location (Sunshine Coast) .

 

[Engibeer]

Regardless... I'm in palmwoods...

Had to do a few things but I'm going to try and clean the element now!

 

[NealK]

How did it go?

 

[gaijin]

Well, whatever you end up doing, I hope you haven't already pitched your yeast cost I would highly recommend boiling. You'll be pretty unimpressed with the result if it hasn't been - especially with a high percentage of pale pilsner malt... apparently the more highly kilned the malt is, the more SMM (precursor to DMS) is removed. Since you are dealing with pale pilsner malt, you'll need to boil the sh*t out of it. Some do a 90min boil rather than 60min to be sure.

If you have pitched yeast, have a beer and chalk this one down to experience. Maybe it won't be that bad.

 

[Engibeer]

I haven't pitched the yeast yet. It's still in the cube after I decocted and did 45 min at 63.

I made a starter from this using 3711.

How long will the DMS take to take over?

Would it be okay if I could come up with s solution to boil it tomorrow?

 

[Engibeer]

Thanks for the offer potof4x pending some chance of saving this perhaps we could chat tomorrow?

Regards

Matt

 

[luggy]

I've got a decent burner and live not far away if you need it

 

[gaijin]

Excellent, so it sounds like you've got some usable wort there ready to go. I was just thinking, do you have a bbq with a side-burner? Before I bought my rambo burner, I used to do my boils on my bbq side burner which I supported with 2 timber stakes as I didn't trust the cantilever setup to hold a 40kg pot of wort.

In regards to DMS, it will take over if you don't boil your wort. I would recommend having a read of this: http://beersmith.com/blog/2012/04/10/dimethyl-sulfides-dms-in-home-brewed-beer/

It's been discussed here before too: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/68439-dms-and-boil/

I wish I had read that before I left the lid on during a boil and making a seriously disappointing lager some time ago. The good news is that nutty creamed corn lager still gets you drunk.

 

[Tahoose]

I found when I did a half batch BIAB with my element modified pot it cut out half way through.

Due to all of the extra stuff that normally gets filtered out when I re circulate..

I'll stick to recirculating my wort and sparging in future.

 

[Engibeer]

I'm a bit short on time so I don't think I'll have time to boil it today. I have to make a trip to Perth tomorrow for a couple of days.

My next opportunity to boil it will be in a weeks time.

What do you guys think would happen if I left it to sour today, put it in the fridge and left it at 4 deg for a week, get my rig sorted out and then boil it?

Thanks for the offer Luggy, whereabouts are you at, just in case?

 

[luggy]

I'm near Landsborough mate, send me a pm if you need it and we'll sort something out

 

[gaijin]

I've never made a beer with a lacto bacteria, but I would assume based on reading other brewers' experiences that not boiling would likely result in any number of infections including an Acetobacter or Clostridium bacterial infection which may have ridden in on the grains which you mashed. From what I've read, the minimum boil time for a Berliner Weisse is 15mins to get rid of these little bastards.

 

[Engibeer]

Got the brew rig working again, I think the element may have been tripping out on overheat as suggested previously?

I gave it a good clean yesterday, however still had a lot of trouble getting a majority of the gunk off. I filled it up with water today and turned the element on to self clean - got to about 80 deg with no dramas so I've emptied it and put the unboiled wort back in.

I'm going to go for a full 60 min boil and cube it, I'll make a new starter next week as I made a starter with the unboiled wort (and added a bit of natural yoghurt) just to see what would happen. So far it doesn't taste particularly off apart from an OVERWHELMING corn flavour.

I think the 3711 took hold of the starter - yoghurt doesn't seem to have done anything... perhaps too early to tell?

 

[NealK]

If you boil about 5 litres of water and put a tablespoon of citric acid in your element should come up looking brand new. If you don't already have some in the cupboard you can get it in the baking section of your local coles/woolies. Next time you are at your local home brew shop you should be able to buy it by the kilo and it will work out cheaper in the long run.

 

[Engibeer]

Thanks Neal,

I think I've got some citric acid in the cupboard.

I'm not entirely sure that stuff caked on the element is the issue - there was only a minor amount after I thought I had "fixed" it.

I managed to bring the wort up to about 80 deg and the element died again.

I think it's time to piss off the k-mart elements and get a bulkhead fitting element from the brew shop.