ACCC acts on beer labelling

[NewtownClown]

One easy to read line.

"brewed by or under license for".......says it all for beers marketed and presented as something supposedly better than or different to big commercial beers.

Not sure what your point is.
There are many great craft "Brewing Companies" that don't own a brewery and have their beers "brewed by" or "brewed under license" by another brewery. (Doctor's Orders is one of a few brands brewed by Young Henry's).
The issue here is hiding the the truth about where it is brewed and by whom. CUB set-up the whole line of deception from the start.

Out of interest, if any of you owned a small brewery or a brewing company and your brand suddenly took off to a level where demand outstripped supply and you were approached by a macro brewery to brew, market and distribute your brand under license; would you knock it back? Would you feel you were a "sell-out"?

 

[madpierre06]

Not sure what your point is.
There are many great craft "Brewing Companies" that don't own a brewery and have their beers "brewed by" or "brewed under license" by another brewery. (Doctor's Orders is one of a few brands brewed by Young Henry's).
The issue here is hiding the the truth about where it is brewed and by whom. CUB set-up the whole line of deception from the start.

Out of interest, if any of you owned a small brewery or a brewing company and your brand suddenly took off to a level where demand outstripped supply and you were approached by a macro brewery to brew, market and distribute your brand under license; would you knock it back? Would you feel you were a "sell-out"?

I thought my point was self explanatory with regard to "big" brewing companies not being overly honest about their role in the brewing operations of a small er brewery which they have taken over as opposed to the example you offer. It is that a small independent brewery starts up and through the point of difference it has in brewing and marketing beers with a difference grabs itself a small but not overly significant market share through the actual taste of the beer it makes. Multinational brewing conglomerate comes along after a few years seeking to grab back the minor portion of market share which has leeched away and makes them an offer they can't refuse. The brand continues to be made at the original brewhouse. However, having seen that bigger money can be made through the expanding craft beer market, the 'big brewer' makes extra quantities at one of their major brewing sites thus rendering the need for "brewed by or under license for" notation on label. And if the general public doesn't know that the original brewery has been bought out they have no or little idea that the change has occured and they may not be buying the original beer which was made under different conditions with maybe greater care as opposed to the mass production now happening.

The question you raise is interesting. For myself, were I the smaller brewery in that position I would be likely to refuse the offer and use my own resources to expand production to a sustainable level given that eventually many people will generally move on to the next big 'thing' and the demand for my product will level out in time. By the time this happens, the macro brewery which has so generously offered their resources and cash will have swallowed up the culture and product which I had so carefully and lovingly built and will either can the product and micro brewery completely, or use it as a local brewing outpost if necessary. Either way, people who originally started out with me and shared my vision will have been discarded like waste. And to me that principle is more important than profits.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Theoretically principle may be more important than profit, in the real world, if a substantial offer was made I think most would take the money, it would be interesting to know how many, if any, micro breweries had declined such an offer from a major brewery.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

Stone & Wood bought back LWB's 20% share when Lion bought LC. Close enough?

http://www.brewsnews.com.au/2012/10/stone-wood-buy-back-the-farm/

 

[madpierre06]

I don't disagree with you, having said that in any world (theoretical or real) to me principle is more important than profit. Once you begin to compromise principles and integrity for money it is a slippery slope to the complete loss of said integrity.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I don't think all those micro breweries or any small businesses that sell their interests to a big businesses are compromising a principal or integrity, one starts a business to make money, if good money is offered very few would knock it back.

 

[catcher]

I got asked this question recently, being if I would ever sell up (once I am up and running). Honestly unless I get completely jack of it (which I doubt) I'll never sell out, the brewery or distillery. I am doing this because I enjoy it and also because I want to create a family business to pass on to my kids.

But I can understand why people sell out, but I never could.

 

[Florian]

Just because you sell your brand to a bigger brewery doesn't mean that you can't start a new brewing operation to follow your 'priciples' and dreams.

Business is business, dreams are dreams. No reason why they can't co-exist, doesn't necessarily have to be a combination of the two.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Sell out or sell a % ?
I would sell a % if it was advantageous for distribution purposes or equipment expansion.
Watch this space.
Nev

 

[madpierre06]

It depends on who you are selling a % to, how much of a %, and why. For mine it is possible to go into business to make a buck and still maintain those principles I spoke of. It may just be a little more difficult at times.

Selling out to start a new brand means discarding the one you have poured all your effort into in the first place. If you have done it purely as a means of making money, then good on you. And who cares about the staff who came along for the ride with you. Maybe their dream was paying off a house or putting their kids through a private education and the job was part of that. If the brand you built up initially was was a 'love' job, then that takes me back to my point in post #22. The moment any 'big' company is allowed in the door, t is only a matter of time before they drive out or push aside the smaller business's culture and people. There may be exceptions to this rule, but reading the news these days you see many examples of what happens in any indstry where this has occurred.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

madpierre, I do admire your moral stance, but when one goes into business it is to make money, and to make more money than one could earn working for someone else, otherwise why would one do it.
Principals do not pay bills and wages, staff if they are looking to put children into private schooling and paying off a house if a better offer comes along they would be off loyalty works both ways.
That's why if a good offer came up the majority in business would take it, you have to remember when you go into business it is 24 x 7 of hard graft especially the early years.

I have thought of another brewery who did a buy back, Theakstons, although the brewery changed hands because of family reasons, it is good to see the brewery back in the family, as for Stone and Wood I would imagine the pressure on them to produce would have led to them selling 20% but they must have had time to think about the situation and decided to buy back when the opportunity arose. So + 1 to them

 

[mje1980]

Just because you sell your brand to a bigger brewery doesn't mean that you can't start a new brewing operation to follow your 'priciples' and dreams.Business is business, dreams are dreams. No reason why they can't co-exist, doesn't necessarily have to be a combination of the two.

I agree. You might even do something a little different than when you first started. People can change their minds. I don't blame people for taking huge offers. It's great to see people who refuse and keep it the same too though. But if you refuse to change in the business world, things can go sour.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Generally when you sell a business there will be a clause to prevent the vendor from opening up a business of a similar nature, and most people who do sell have no interest in opening up something similar or otherwise why sell in the first place.

 

[madpierre06]

madpierre, I do admire your moral stance, but when one goes into business it is to make money, and to make more money than one could earn working for someone else, otherwise why would one do it.
Principals do not pay bills and wages, staff if they are looking to put children into private schooling and paying off a house if a better offer comes along they would be off loyalty works both ways.
That's why if a good offer came up the majority in business would take it, you have to remember when you go into business it is 24 x 7 of hard graft especially the early years.

I have thought of another brewery who did a buy back, Theakstons, although the brewery changed hands because of family reasons, it is good to see the brewery back in the family, as for Stone and Wood I would imagine the pressure on them to produce would have led to them selling 20% but they must have had time to think about the situation and decided to buy back when the opportunity arose. So + 1 to them

And look, I fully understand the aspects of this discussion that you mention and am certainly not going to bag anyone who operates under those principles. Without starting another discussion which could go on forever, I would also mention that we as a society i general have been conditioned/pushed towards a mindset of "i have to look out for myself as nobody else will" with govts. pushing policies which look to encourage/engender selfishness.

Whilst I certainly don't wish to nominate for sainthood I prefer to live by certain principles and find that by doing so I sleep with a clear conscience, I find that I have generally been rewarded in life by living as best I can to those principles, and my children are developing similar principles which is something which causes me great pride in them. To me, these things are worth more than an extra dollar which can be gone in a second.

I just look at the world we live in these days. The days of the 30 year job or 30 year employee are long gone. We ahev no certainty of employment and the security in the home that comes with that. How many blokes that you work with these days are going to be willing to go out on the grass for you if you are badly done by at work. For mine, we can't afford to compromise on principlwes once we have declared them...we are either in the game, or out of it.

Anyway, enough of the deep stuff, it's a friday ight, there's a game of footy gonna be on, and I've got some beer to drink and bottles to sanitise.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

And I hope your team wins

 

[madpierre06]

Yes indeedly doodly. B)

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Ned is that you?

 

[schrodinger]

madpierre, I do admire your moral stance, but when one goes into business it is to make money, and to make more money than one could earn working for someone else, otherwise why would one do it.

Er, maybe because they love it? Money matters and is necessary, but people go into business for other reasons than simply to make money. A lot of these craft brewers have advanced degrees in microbiology or other scientific disciplines, and most of them could make heaps more, and for far less work, working in the biotech industry. Or doing any number of other things.

 

[GalBrew]

Er, maybe because they love it? Money matters and is necessary, but people go into business for other reasons than simply to make money. A lot of these craft brewers have advanced degrees in microbiology or other scientific disciplines, and most of them could make heaps more, and for far less work, working in the biotech industry. Or doing any number of other things.

Trust me, as someone with a PhD in 'scientific disciplines' my earning potential is shite, if I am lucky enough to remain employed. If I could 'sell out' (not that I have anything to sell) I would in a heartbeat. Science doesn't pays shit and you have zero job security these days, and with kids and a mortgage you need more than 'passion', 'love', 'integrity' etc to keep a roof over your head......just saying.

 

[schrodinger]

I'm also someone with a PhD in science, who struggled with the indentured servitude of a decade worth of post docs before finally getting a quasi-secure job with shitty pay. So I understand the situation perfectly. But if you think you'd be in a better boat financially if you gave it up to become a craft brewer, you're crazy. Also, if my PhD were in molecular biology or microbiology, as are the degrees of some craft brewers, it would open the door to thousands of far better-paying jobs in private industry. Every single one of my friends from grad school with molecular skills has left academia for private industry, for that reason.