A Guide To All-grain Brewing In A Bag

[sandjeep457]

thanks Thirsty -I'll try the water test tonight when I get home from work.

It was definitely marked Swiss Voile - 100& Polyester, from Spotlight. Is this the correct stuff ???

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

thanks Thirsty -I'll try the water test tonight when I get home from work.

It was definitely marked Swiss Voile - 100& Polyester, from Spotlight. Is this the correct stuff ???

Yes. Probably. Maybe. No.

This is what I use:

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Chkml...feat=directlink

I spent a bit of time in Spotlight a couple of weeks ago looking at all the different voile types. They are all quite similarish (*normal caveats apply) and would likely work if all other things are equal. The difference (apart from the thread they're made of) is the size of the weave and if they have some pattern woven in such as Snow Voile does. I would happily use any of the voiles made of polyester or nylon if I couldn't get the exact one I want, but would remain on the lookout for the exact one I want.

 

[sandjeep457]

Yes. Probably. Maybe. No.

.

Thanks - nice precise answer !!!

My Swiss Voile Looks nothing like your Swiss Voille. Mine could be used as a Pillow Case - no holes at all. I'll head off to Spotlight again and see if I can find something like yours. I guess the Polyester bit is so that it can handle the 70 degrees C ???

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

I guess the Polyester bit is so that it can handle the 70 degrees C ???

I can't speak to why it was originally chosen by the Ancients, but I think it a good choice for a bunch of reasons. It doesn't love caustic soda, but that substance should be reserved for making soap and removing unsightly corpses.

 

[Nick JD]

Years and years ago I used to use peel ply (fiberglassing polyester) for steeping spec grains. Works fine.

 

[sandjeep457]

I can't speak to why it was originally chosen by the Ancients, but I think it a good choice for a bunch of reasons. It doesn't love caustic soda, but that substance should be reserved for making soap and removing unsightly corpses.

Yeah, I certaily don't want to offend the Ancients, would be bad Karma.

I think us brewers are an inventive lot and always want to change everything- even when brewing the well renonwed Dr Smurto's Ale most of us seem to want to change something - even though the original is perfect as it is !

Anyway, my Swiss Voile was similar to a thin pillowcase - so I've wandered up to Spotlight and had a look around again. Definitely is Swiss Voille what I have and it is not seethrough nor have any holes in it.
So (be nice to me Ancients), I bought some Muslin.
The bloke serving me said it was the stuff they used on masterchef so is suitable for boiling water. Looks very thin though.

So I'll be trying this tomorrow.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

second wrong choice - sorry. Muslin will work to a degree and for a while, but it is not the best choice and it is not gold standard option.

Don't worry about the name of the damn stuff - read the descriptions. Look at the pictures. Seriously... how much detail do people need?? It was abundantly clear to me what was required within about 30 seconds of going to the curtain fabric section at spotlight. What I bought was not called voil, I did not ask for voile - it was... well it was just bloody obvious from actually reading and paying attention to what people had told me to look for.

A 100% polyester - see through - neutrally coloured - very fine mesh of about the same level of fineness as a ladies nylon stocking. You will most likely find it in the section with the other curtain sheers.

I can think of about 10 other things (including muslin) that will or should work in some way shape or form. One guy in teh US did it with wedding dress material, I've done one with an actual pillowcase; Hell, I have heard a story that someone did a BIAB with a pair of pajama bottoms with teh legs tied closed..... but the fabric we recommend and describe again and again and again in nauseating detail... is the stuff that we know works well, that we know lasts well, that we know cleans well and that we know you can brew good beer using.

here is a link to a very large picture of a BIAB bag - the one that Gryphon Brewing sells. And buying a bag off him is always an option.

http://www.gryphonbrewing.com.au/store/images/100_1307.jpg

So - One more time for clarity. 100% polyester - see through - neutrally coloured - very fine mesh of about the same level of fineness as a ladies nylon stocking/the filter on coffee press/a drum sieve you might pass your pomme puree through (given the popularity of Masterchef) and it looks just like the picture linked to above.

I'm sorry to rant and rave, but I'm so damn sick of this question..... seriously, if you cant work it out from the info that's already been given out so many times in this thread and others - don't ask again - just PM me your address and I will post you a swatch of the damn stuff so you can take it the shop with you.

 

[sandjeep457]

The picture looks like the Muslin I bought ......

 

[Phoney]

Well said T.B.

My head is spinning The Exorcist style at how so many people can find buying swiss voile so difficult. I went to a fabric store in Campsie (little Hanoi, Sydney) and even the Vietnamese guy who barely spoke a word of English picked out the right stuff for me in an instant when I told him what I was after.

And as for Gryphon; I eventually replaced my home made job with one of those. It's 40 bucks, it saves you a world of stuffing around and it's better than anything you could ever make yourself anyway. Bite the bullet and buy it I say! :icon_cheers:

 

[Thirsty Boy]

The picture looks like the Muslin I bought ......

And yet the muslin wouldn't be 100% polyester no??

Sorry about my last post, I am patently tired and emotional - will go take a bex and have a good lie down. It wasn't directed specifically at you BTW... it just seemed that way. My bad.

I do mean it about posting a swatch of the stuff though. I really want to stop having to answer this question every week or two.

TB

 

[sandjeep457]

Thats fine - it is Polyester - the bloke at Spotlight recommended it. I'll see how it goes tomorrow.

thanks anyway

 

[PistolPatch]

Okay, had a long day but will try and do a few helpful posts. The first one is on bags.

Re using natural fibres (e.g. cotton, hemp, canvas etc) read here

Re bag designs, shapes and material, read here

Reading those two links will save old ThirstyBoy a bit of frustration. ThirstyBoy is a bit like me. We don't mind writing a lot of detail but sometimes forget how hard it is for others to find the answers we may have written many times before. It isn't easy or fair for older brewers to expect newcomers to find answers easily but sometimes we forget this. We usually write detailed posts as a way to unwind, probably a bit like doing a crossword puzzle, so we shouldn't complain but sometimes we spit the dummy. It is our fault not yours. Usually when Thirsty does it, it is quite funny. When I do it, it is usually just plain appalling .

I get worn out sometimes . Worked 15 hours straight today (plus travel), let's see if I can answer a few posts sensibly now. Don't hold your breath but sometimes I can.


Pat

 

[PistolPatch]

Thanks for all the info, very encouraging. I will try and get my samples pre-boil from now on, just gotta get a metal ruler and figure out the volumes of my pot.

For what its worth I had a sample of my first AG (only 3 weeks in the bottle) and can't believe how good it is already. There is something I can't put my finger on...the body perhaps? Something great anyway! I'm going to bottle my current brew and put down another ASAP!

Great to hear back from you barney. It makes a difference to hear back that anything we have written helped a tad. I wrote some other stuff a few days ago that might help you here.

I am so pleased to see that you are already tasting a difference. It is a lot easier with all-grain to get "depth" in a beer - different layers of sensory excitement . Kit and extract beers are often what is sometimes described as "one-dimensional." (I have tasted a few that were not though.) Moving into multi-grain out of white bread is very easy with all-grain. I think that thing that you can't put your finger on may be those layers - often subtle.

I must say though that the brewers I have the most respect for are the ones that can brew a great kit or extract beer. Unfortunatley, any of the ones I have met have no idea how they do it and a lot of their beers still have that extract twang plus the one dimension.

Cheers to you barney,
Pat

 

[PistolPatch]

aussiechukka: Thanks for your reply AC. Will look forward to hearing how you go. Ageing doesn't help many beers and few of us have the patience to do it. If you do bottle a few and gradually taste them, please let us know what you come up with.

sandjeep: Congrats on your first BIAB . You are correct to question the term. "Swiss Voille." I'm pretty sure that it is the terminology I used in the .pdf at the beginning of this thread. In hindsight, "Swiss Voille," could, depending on the shop, mean anything! I'll see if I can get it sorted.

It is no wonder though that brewers get confused. I posted the guide originally here on AHB in the days when you could still edit posts. So, I always thought I could keep the guide up to date here easily. Quite a shame as it is a bit out of date now.

Anyway, latest guide, info etc can be found here but there is still a heap of work to do.

With a few volunteers we will get there ,
Pat

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Thats fine - it is Polyester - the bloke at Spotlight recommended it. I'll see how it goes tomorrow.

thanks anyway

ahh - then it will almost certainly be fine. It's the damn name thing again... we say voile, but that apparently means about 35 different things and people get confused, you say muslin, I assume you mean the cotton stuff and I get it wrong (embarrassing after a good old fashioned rant really) ... there you go. Anyway, well done, I suspect you have the right stuff - ignore me when I am cranky.

Now get brewing and make sure you let us know how it goes this time - hopefully easier for you.

Cheers

TB

 

[.DJ.]

I'm going to be doing my first BIAB but have searched all morning and cant find the exact info I'm after. (yes, I probably had a "man look"....)

I'm doing Tony's LCBA clone and looking to have 26L into the fermenter at 1.046ish gravity.
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...&recipe=301

My question is:

How much initial water do I put in the urn? I obviously have to account for evaporation and grain... Is there a simple equation to work this out?

 

[potof4x]

You will also need to account for the amount left that you cant get out of the kettle and losses to trub. All these factors vary - depending on your setup. Also when wort cools it shrinks 4%

Typically I lose - 0.9 L per kilo of grain.
- 9% per hour of boil (40 L keggle)
- 1.5L to break material + what wont drain cause my pickup won't suck it.
- 4% shrink

Using a 5 kilo grain bill in this example -

So work backwards. 26L + 4% + 1.5L + 9% + (5 x 0.9) = 35.6L

Remember that your grain will occupy some space, so if you are using a 40L urn you will be pushing for it to all fit!

If you get a copy of brewmate it will do the calcs for you, but these will get you started this batch.

Good luck

 

[.DJ.]

cheers...

 

[potof4x]

Are you going to no-chill also? If so you need to be careful with your hop additions, I have done a couple of Doc Smurto's Golden Ales that have ended up to bitter! Took me a couple of goes to figure that you need to delay your hop additions some!

 

[Bribie G]

Yes, the bigger grain bills can be a bit of a problem. To take a totally ridiculous example there's probably a grain bill of around 30K which, if you put that in the urn would soak up all the water and you would end up with a pre boil volume in the kettle of absolute zero

The other point is that brews using a lot of adjuncts, eg a rice lager or maize cream ale seem to produce much smaller, dryer 'grain balls' at the end of the mash with more wort in the kettle than the same initial weight as, for example, 100% Maris Otter. The adjuncts get eaten up almost completely.

Photo's suggestion is about spot on, sometimes my initial level in the urn after adding the grain is almost up to the top. With a larger (say over 5.5k) grain bill that's why I sometimes do a sparge in a bucket to get the pre boil level up again. The pre boil level is the important thing and eventually you will get a feel for what the level should look like - it's more art than science I've found.

Cheers
:icon_cheers: