A Guide To All-grain Brewing In A Bag

[reviled]

I recently acquired a refractometer and decided to test the sugars im getting from sparging in the bucket...

Basically what im doing is mashing in with say 4L per kg of grain, mashing for 60 mins, removing the bag and sparging with an additional 6L of water @ 78*c

I was brewing 20litres of 1060 beer with 6kg of malt, when I removed the bag and grain and lined my sparge bucket, the wort in the kettle had a reading of 15 brix, or 1060

I sparged with 7 odd litres, did a mini batch sparge twice and then ran off into a bucket, I measured the 6 odd litres left in the bucket and it read 9.5 brix, which to me seemed quite low?? Or is this about right?

Has anyone else measured the results they get out of sparging?

 

[.DJ.]

thanks guys, I have my head around the no chill hop addition thingy...

fingers crossed for sunday.. havent brewed in a while and this is my fist BIAB..

 

[RdeVjun]

I recently acquired a refractometer and decided to test the sugars im getting from sparging in the bucket...

Basically what im doing is mashing in with say 4L per kg of grain, mashing for 60 mins, removing the bag and sparging with an additional 6L of water @ 78*c

I was brewing 20litres of 1060 beer with 6kg of malt, when I removed the bag and grain and lined my sparge bucket, the wort in the kettle had a reading of 15 brix, or 1060

I sparged with 7 odd litres, did a mini batch sparge twice and then ran off into a bucket, I measured the 6 odd litres left in the bucket and it read 9.5 brix, which to me seemed quite low?? Or is this about right?

Has anyone else measured the results they get out of sparging?

Yep, I've been keeping some data reviled. My method is slightly different (19L stockpot, double sparged, over- gravity boil, dilution at pitching) but for a 4.75 kg grain bill, over the last five batches my averages are 1.084 in 10.6L for first runnings, 1.042 in 4.7L for first sparge, 1.032 in 4.3L for second sparge and dilutes to around 24L of 1.055 in the fermenter (which is just perfect!).
FWIW, I've done 5.5kg in my small pot, numbers were 10.2L of 1.091, 4.5L of 1.043, 7.0L of 1.038 (two mini- sparges).

Now, if I understood it right, your numbers should yield about 3L of 1.060 per kg of grain mashed, whereas mine average just over 4 when adjusted to that concentration. Bigger beers tend to decrease efficiency, that's a fair jump though IMO and I'd be looking for answers.
The sparge yielded 22% of the total sugars which isn't too bad, compare that with my average of 27%. Perhaps use near- boiling water for your sparge? I've found with small sparges, it needs to be that hot to get the whole lot up to a mashout temperature in the mid- 70s, perhaps that should yield a little bit more. Stir it well is another suggestion, but repeating it as you've done should help, particularly with the big grain bill and a smaller sparge vessel.

Hope this helps! :icon_cheers:

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Reviled,

It shouldn't be too hard to work out how well your sparge is performing. You just need to work out the total amount of sugars you made, the amount that went into your kettle as "first runnings" - thus giving you the amount left in your grains. Then when you work out how much went into you sparge - you can start to work out how efficient your sparge process is.

So..

Measure your gravity in the kettle before you sparge... You got 1.060 or 15 brix. I don't know what volumes you had, so I will make some up as an illustration.

You mashed with 28l
You ended up with 23 the kettle @ 15 brix
Which means you left behind 5L of your liquid trapped in the grain
You added 7 liters of sparge water and recovered 6 l of sparge runoff @ 9.5 brix
For a total of 29l pre boil volume

OK, now this is the twist to remember. you didn't make 19l of wort... You made 28! None of you liquid has vanished.. It's all still there. AND it all has a gravity of 15 brix! (if you have stirred you mash properly and everything is homogenous) It's just that 5l of it is still all mixed up with your grain. So now you know how much sugar is the theoretical maximum you could possibly extract by sparging. Just use gravity points. Ie: multiply the volume by the gravity. So you have a potential yield of 5 x 15 = 75 gravity points that you could potentially recover by sparging.

What you actually did recover was... 6 oddL let's say that's 6.5 @ a gravity of 9.5 brix. Which is 6.5 x 9.5 =61.75 gravity points.

Which means that your sparge process was 61.75/75 x 100 = 82.3% efficient at recovering the sugars available to it. so, if the numbers I have fudged in are similar to your actual numbers.. Then there really isn't a whole lot of room for improvement in your sparge process... Which is what I would expect from a double batch/dunk sparge.

The caveat to this little exercise... Is that for it to be really meaningful in any true sense..... You have to be pretty accurate with your volume and gravity measurements. Small inaccuracies can throw the results out a goodly chunk. And you do need to be thorough with your pre bag pull stirring... Or the sugars won't be evenly distributed and the concentration in the grain fraction will be higher.. Which will tend to make your sparge look more efficient... But will actually lower your total mash/sparge efficiency a bit.

Hope that all made sense

TB

 

[.DJ.]

thanks guys, I have my head around the no chill hop addition thingy...

fingers crossed for sunday.. havent brewed in a while and this is my fist BIAB..

Well everything seemed to go reasonably well.. got about 24L of 1046 wort into the cube. About what I was aiming for!!!

Pretty happy and really enjoyed myself...

Now what to brew next...

 

[PistolPatch]

DJ, congratulations on your first AG!

I don't seem to have enough time to see when someone does their first AG but when I see posts such as yours, they always "up" my day. I'll look forward to hearing about how she tastes!

As for what to brew next, if you like LCBA then brew NRB's All American Amarillo Pale Ale. It's a really well-balanced version of LCPA and LCBA. Everyone loves that recipe. If you like a lager then try Lloydies Krispy Kolsch . If you ferment this low at say 14-15 C you don't get the fruitiness of a kolsch, more the crispness of a lager without the hassles.

As a third suggestion, I'd brew either the Black Beer recipe you'll find in the first post of this thread or Doc's one. Schwartz is a great beer - very interesting and very, "moreish.".

Cheers to you DJ,
Pat

 

[.DJ.]

Well its fermented, kegged, gassed and my little 9l keg was promptly polished off over the weekend.

First of all props to Tony for a wicked recipe.

Beer was nice. Easily the best Pale Ale I have brewed Nicely balanced, as LCBA is.

Problems: cloudy, cloudy, cloudy. Now I dont know if it just hadnt settled as I kegged on Friday night, drank on Saturday. Or because I didnt use Whirfloc or the like?

 

[Bribie G]

Great results DJ :beerbang: I'd definitely be using whirlfloc with all BIAB brews. Only 1/4 tablet with a mini BIAB. Although I'm a big fan of Polyclar, with pale ales etc I've also had a lot of success with just good old isinglass finings tipped into the keg UK Pommy pub style and sit for a week. It does a great job on chill haze as well.

The only downside is that they are a bugger to prepare, you have to give it a really long stir. I cheat with a cheap milkshake maker I bought from go lo. Seems to work. At the risk of annoying you with a genuine BribieG recycled photo - the one on the left is a lager fined with gelatine / polyclar and the one on the right is an American cream ale cleared in the keg with isinglass. As you can see there is a slight difference in clarity but would be quite acceptable for pale ales.

 

[Phoney]

The only downside is that they are a bugger to prepare, you have to give it a really long stir. I cheat with a cheap milkshake maker I bought from go lo. Seems to work.

I prepare my polyclar mixture in a small pyrex measuring jug, drop in a stir bar and sit it on the stir plate for 20 mins, and it's done. :icon_cheers:

 

[reviled]

Cheers Rdevjun and Thirsty

Only just read your replies now, a bit to get my head around so will re-read through all of that over this arvo Much appreciated tho!

 

[beerbog]

My 2nd BIAB, Dr Smurto's Golden Ale

My mash at 30 mins, gets a doona and sleeping bag on top as well. :beerbang:

 

[Damian44]

I was just looking through the the results for the Castle Hill comp and i won 1st prize in the Pilsner catorgory. Go BIAB. And i even used B Saaz. I hope its not a misprint. Unfortunately the keg just blew so i wont be able to enter it in the Nationals.

 

[RdeVjun]

I was just looking through the the results for the Castle Hill comp and i won 1st prize in the Pilsner catorgory. Go BIAB. And i even used B Saaz. I hope its not a misprint. Unfortunately the keg just blew so i wont be able to enter it in the Nationals.

Firstly, well done on a great job, that's huge! :beerbang: But secondly, quick, I'd get re- brewing if you can! Might just squeeze one through in time, quite within the AABC rules to re- brew.

BIAB got 2nd and 3rd in Qld in Pale Lager (OMFSM!), plus a 1st in Low alc, 3rd in Stout, maybe more- as you say, go BIAB!

 

[PistolPatch]

Good on you Damian - a top score in a difficult category.

I see Ralph has added you to the Hall of Fame - good on him .

Top job mate :super:

 

[MarkBastard]

I tried out a 'no squeeze' BIAB and my efficiency was the same as my usual squeezing.

Just pulled the bag out and drained for as long as I could be bothered, then chucked it in another pot (equiv of a bucket) and let it sit for a while. The wort finds its way out of the grain and into the bottom of the pot. Then empty the wort from the pot back into the kettle. Do this every 5 minutes until the boil.

I found squeezing annoying so I'm happy with this process, and I don't want to actually hang the bag either so this works well for me.

Hanging would no doubt be quicker in terms of time it takes the wort to come out of the bag, but I figure it takes a while to get up to the boil anyway so doing it this way doesn't add any time to the brew day.

 

[beerdrinkingbob]

I tried out a 'no squeeze' BIAB and my efficiency was the same as my usual squeezing.

Just pulled the bag out and drained for as long as I could be bothered, then chucked it in another pot (equiv of a bucket) and let it sit for a while. The wort finds its way out of the grain and into the bottom of the pot. Then empty the wort from the pot back into the kettle. Do this every 5 minutes until the boil.

I found squeezing annoying so I'm happy with this process, and I don't want to actually hang the bag either so this works well for me.

Hanging would no doubt be quicker in terms of time it takes the wort to come out of the bag, but I figure it takes a while to get up to the boil anyway so doing it this way doesn't add any time to the brew day.

Are you dunk sparging Mark?

 

[PistolPatch]

Then empty the wort from the pot back into the kettle. Do this every 5 minutes until the boil.

Howdy Mark ,

We might need a bit more info here. Emptying the wort from a bucket into the kettle every five minutes sounds like a PITA!

BIAB gives very good efficiency no matter what you do for the reasons listed here.

There are also two methods of draining wort offered here.

I might be missing something here but we definitely need more info.

I have also noticed lately that some BIABrewers are crushing too fine. Your crush should not be full of flour. Like any brewing method, it is all a question of balance.

Too fine a crush (with any method) will give you greater gravity but less volume. Too coarse a crush will give you more volume but at less gravity.

Any brewer can score efficiency increases just by draining their mash tun or bag until just before the end of the boil but this is just stupid and inconvenient.

Just do a normal crush and drain as much as you can, with little effort, before your brew reaches the boil. Doing this with BIAB, will give you around 80% efficiency into the kettle which is also known as mash efficiency and what most brewers call their "brewhouse efficiency."

If you want a couple more efficiency points than this to achieve a wort of probably less quality and that will cost you a lot more time and expense, then fly-sparge or buy a commercial brewery .

Spot ya,
Pat

 

[bcp]

That's really helpful Pat, but i'm stuffed if i know how to get 80% efficiency. I think i have been crushing too fine though. But i stir, i lift the bag about halfway through... just over 70% is the best i've done, and never consistently.

I have two digital thermometers, and they vary in reading. I'm wondering if my temps are out, but i wouldn't have thought i'd be that far out as to make a difference.

But I don't need 80% - i'd be happy with 70% if i could just get the same efficiency every time so i can plan my recipes around it. Consistency is the thing.

 

[felten]

Could be a pH issue, melb water is very soft (if you're down in this part of the state/country). Get some pH strips and do some testing. And then if you haven't already, have a read of the 3 braukaiser articles on pH and brewing.

 

[Rodolphe01]

What sort of retention of wort are others getting from the grain?

I did my first full-size BIAB on the weekend and in my calcs I expected my ~5kg of grain to hold ~5L of wort. Perhaps it was the extended hang time of the bag (had to disapear for a bit), but when my volume was ~3L more than expected I weighed my grain and worked out it had retained only 150g per kilo of grain. I didn't take a gravity reading into kettle, probably should have given it was my first batch in new equipment, i figured i will just take a gravity reading into fermenter and correct with dry malt. Pre-boil volume was adjusted by taking out 3L of wort, i will use this for starters etc, or maybe boil it down to correct gravity of this batch.