A Guide To All-grain Brewing In A Bag

[Morrie0069]

Yep, I think I'll be holding off the next AG until I get a larger pot! Doing 2 boils isn't much fun, so I think I'll see what I can scrounge up during the next couple of weeks. My 2 fermenters will be busy during that time anyway, as AG number 1 takes up 1, and I'm about to throw a quick CPA kit, with some BE2 and maybe some more hops, with a CPA yeast I've cultured from some stubbies - this was going to be for my CPA AG clone, but hey, I guess I'll just have to drink soem more when the time comes - DAMN!

Here's a summary of what I ended up with yesterday:

5 Kg Bohemian Pilsener

Saaz Czech Hops (3.4% AA) 12.5 grams 90 Minutes
Saaz Czech Hops (3.4% AA) 5 grams 45 Minutes
Saaz Czech Hops (3.4% AA) 7.5 grams 10 Minutes
Saaz Czech Hops (3.4% AA) 20 grams 5 Minutes

Koppafloc 1/4 teaspoon 10 Minutes

OG - 1044

Saflager S-23 Pitched at 12:30 today.

From 30 Litre mash in esky, ended up with about 21 Litres in fermenter.

It tastes nice and sweet, and smells lovely! Can't wait to try the end result.

Thanks everyone.

Cheers,

Morrie

 

[Maxt]

My second BIAB was much easier, as I had sorted out the gear. On my first go, the mash went from 60 deg to 80 at one stage (all un-planned!). The second one stayed at 69 and didn't move more than 1 degree the whole time.

I do think I need to mash out a higher temp to improve efficiency.

I forgot to whirlpool and run off the first 100ml in the APA when going from kettle to fermenter, but other than that it was very easy.

I dry hopped 25gms of cascade, and with that and the substantial Amarillo and Casacade additions during the boil, I am looking forward to a nice hoppy APA.


I am sure I would not be into AG this early without BIAB. Good work Pat.

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

Just a thought with regards to bag shape

Provided it was big enough would you even need it to be shaped like the kettle?

What I mean is a sheet of material large enough to line the kettle should work too right?

If Im still not being clear then I suppose you could think of it like lining a match box with a sheet of toilet paperit would fit and line the box well, but would have to fold up/crease around the edges.

Would the folds cause any problems? :huh:

PZ.

 

[PistolPatch]

Howdy Guys,

The sheet idea would work Finger but I reckon it would be a ******* to manage. You'd have it draping over the sides etc. I reckon getting a bag sewn up in the Swiss Voile is the way to go. Anyone that has a sewing machine will be able to do it for you really quickly. I think everyone who has tried a variation on the bag so far has just run into problems mate. Glad that new thermometer of yours fixed the other problem. Hooray!

Max, sorry I didn't see your post until now but the higher temps won't change your efficiency. This just gives you a sweeter and more full bodied beer. Lower temps give you a drier, lighter bodied beer. How did you go with your efficiency on your first crack?

Morrie, looks like we'll have to wait a while to hear your taste results. I didn't realise you were doing a pils. If you keg and have a spare one, then chuck it in that when the ferments finished, carb it up and you can taste its progess.

Cheers
Pat

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

Pat, I'll still use Voile and draping over the sides won't be a problem, as the plan is to cut it in a large circle and add a drawstring around the outer edge.

Take a tissue and put it over your finger, then take it off (maintaining the shape) and cut the end off...bingo, a perfectly circular piece :beer:

Best thing I can imagine about this is that there won't be any seams for grain particles to get stuck in, hence easiest cleaning in the world :super:

PZ.

 

[hughman666]

Pat, I'll still use Voile and draping over the sides won't be a problem, as the plan is to cut it in a large circle and add a drawstring around the outer edge.

exactly what i have done and it works fantastic, no seams to worry about and the drawstring allows you to suspend it at different heights in the pot - provided you have a large enough pot of course.

i am actually moving onto using my old 36L esky for my mash tun but that's still a way off so BIAB for a while yet!!!

 

[poppa joe]

Finger..
You are a Genius......
Now we have the NO SEW BIAB BAG......
Cheers
PJ

Vote 1 the bucket....

 

[Maxt]

My bag only has stitching on the sides and for the drawstring. Makes me a lot more confident when removing it from the kettle.


As for the efficiency Pat, I thought that ending the mash (ie last five-ten minutes) on a slighlty higher temp had an effect on the efficiency? Is this incorrect?

Anyway I had to know what BIAB no#2 (APA) was like so I cracked a very green one yesterday. Absolutely sensational. Still undercarbed (but you get that with a beer that's a week and a half old!).

I will be patient and wait until it's grown up, but I had to see how my first AG, non disaster beer tasted.
:beer:

It's all good Pat!

 

[FNQ Bunyip]

Good to hear Max .. No turning back now buddy..
:beer:

 

[PistolPatch]

As for the efficiency Pat, I thought that ending the mash (ie last five-ten minutes) on a slighlty higher temp had an effect on the efficiency? Is this incorrect?

I haven't heard of this Max but will find out for you today at vjval1975's brew day. I think it's going to be a biggie!

Glad to hear that brew is tasting delish already. Somtimes its good fun being impatient - lol.

 

[PistolPatch]

Sorry Max, I forgot to ask your question on Saturday - too busy drinking beer and having fun!

Have asked it now though...

I think where the efficiency thing you mention comes from is in traditional batch sparging and mash out temps. (It might also relate to fly sparging - not sure.) When you batch sparge, you want to raise the grain bed temp to above 74 on your first sparge preferably. Less than this and you will be extracting sweeter fuller flavours from the grain which you don't want if you are brewing a pils for example. The higher you can get this temp on your first sparge, the better as the grains 'rinse' better. The difference though is relatively minute.

With BIAB, the efficiency you get will be higher than other methods anyway - about 10% better. I also think that efficiency is an over-rated goal especially for those of us starting out. The only thing efficiency can do is save you a few cents or at worst a dollar or two on your brew. I think for us, there are more important things to 'tune up.'

The other thing is that people report their brewhouse efficiencies which is mis-leading as this varies with losses to trub in kettles etc.

As AndrewQLD explained to me, mash efficiency is a far more universal measure. In other words, "How many litres can you get into your kettle, at what gravity, at the beginning of your boil?" What happens after that has nothing to do woth grain extraction.

Excuse my usual long-winded answer.


Pat

Edit: I forgot to put the actual answer in...

If you wanted to improve your efficiency this way with BIAB, you would have to take the bag out, raise the temp of the sweet liquor to 74 degrees or above and then dump the bag back in. Given that BIAB is full-volume brewing, this may not even make a difference. Certainly not worth the effort.

Thanks to Rossco for all the info :super:

 

[Maxt]

As always, thanks Pat. :beer:

 

[Phrak]

If you wanted to improve your efficiency this way with BIAB, you would have to take the bag out, raise the temp of the sweet liquor to 74 degrees or above and then dump the bag back in. Given that BIAB is full-volume brewing, this may not even make a difference. Certainly not worth the effort.

Pat, I'm curious - Why would we have to remove the bag, raise the temp and dump it back in?

Why couldn't we just raise the temp with the bag in?

Tim.

 

[PistolPatch]

Howdy Tim,

Been a while - seems to be so much happening lately. Anyway, too much to say so better just answer the question...

Imagine that you are trying to brew a light bodied and dry beer. To do this you'll mash at say 64 degrees, even lower. If you leave the bag in whilst raising to boiling, the temp will slowly rise and therefore release the whatever it is, (enzymes or something!) that creates a sweeter, more full-bodied beer.

After you get to 74, all enzyme activity ceases so there is no danger of releasing unwanted thingos(!) that will make your beer too sweet or full-bodied. So, dumping the bag in then would be fine although I think it would acheive very little.

Full volume brewing has a unique advantage when it comes to 'rinsing' the grain. It's like putting 2 teaspoons of sugar into a full cup of coffee instead of a 1/4 of a cup. Much easier to dissolve.

The facts above I think are pretty right. The terminology? Probably not!

Like I say to all the girls, "I'm not a gynaecologist but I'll take a quick look at it for you."

Terminology has its place but only when you really know what you are talking about.

LOL
Pat

P.S. This post may well be edited by morning.

 

[jimmysuperlative]

Imagine that you are trying to brew a light bodied and dry beer. To do this you'll mash at say 64 degrees, even lower. If you leave the bag in whilst raising to boiling, the temp will slowly rise and therefore release the whatever it is, (enzymes or something!) that creates a sweeter, more full-bodied beer.

Holy sheep ***** ...I didn't even think of this. I've just been cranking up the heat with the bag in there!! I don't really feel so bad because the beer tastes great anyway!

...but something to consider for next time, no doubt.

I'm presently drinking BIAB No3 ...a Nelson Sauvin Summer Ale (based on Ross's recipe). I thought it was perfect until I read your post Pat!!!

Oh well, just have to race through this keg now to make room for my next BIAB with the proper mash out procedure!!

 

[PistolPatch]

A Correction and Some Other Intersting Stuff!

I did the same thing Jimmy. In fact, the only reason I stopped doing it was that the bag was easier to lift out when cooler!

It's only recently I've learned that this can be a mistake but I still get conflicting advice here...

On reflection, I think that the speed with which BIAB raises the temperature from mash to 74 degrees is so fast compared to batch or fly-sparging that it is irrelevant. In fact, thinking from this angle, I KNOW it is irrelevant.

My advice above on removing the bag is incorrect.

The main thing is not to muck about between your mash temperature and 74 degrees. Understanding efficiency is of importance. Increasing efficiency should be of minor importance to craft brewers.

This temperature thingo has also come up in a thread I recently started A Guide To Mashing And Batch Sparging I think that the comments that the experienced brewers have added to the thread make for some interesting reading. While some of their advice is conflicting, it just goes to show that there is a lot of room for movement in our brewing.

BIAB versus Batch-Sparging

This arvo I had a beer with vjval1974. Brad started AG the same time as I did. He brews very good beer and loves experimenting. He currently batch sparges but is quite keen on switching to BIAB as I have done. Before he does this though, we are going to brew and ferment identical beers (except one BIABed and one batch-sparged) and send them off to a few judges for comment. Whilst myself and others can't taste the difference, I think the exercise will be a re-assuring one for those who are a little unsure of trying a new method.

We also have several other experiments planned. Exciting stuff!

Finally, Phrak. Have you done your BIAB brew yet?

Cheers
Pat

 

[WildaYeast]

Glad to hear you guys are thinking of doing two identical batches -- I thought last week that we had missed a perfect opportunity.

 

[Morrie0069]

Morning all,

Just started my 2nd BIAB using AndrewQLD's Coopers Pale Ale Clone recipe Link. I'm also using a Safale yeast packet, as I didn't get a chance to culture any CPA. Esky has 30 litres and was at 70 degrees when I poured the grain in. Is now at 68 degrees and smells lovely! I had made a slight error when I ordered the grain, which I found out last night. Instead of getting 30 grams of teh dark crystal, I ordered 3Kg - a slight difference! So now I have 2.97 Kg of dark crystal in an airtight container, which I'm wondering what I can brew to use it in the next couple of weeks - ideas welcomed

I haven't tasted the first AG yet, but it has been in the keg for 10 days now (primed with sugar), so I'll be putting it in the fridge next week and hopefully tasting it next weekend. :chug:

Query on the vac pack bags that Ross uses, should they stay nice and tight or do they loosen up over a few weeks? I guess it depends on weather conditions and humidty, etc.? I was going to hold off on my 2nd AG till I had a larger pot, but last night I noticed the bags were looser, so I panicked and thought it was better to use them ASAP in case any air had got in.

I'll let you know how the day goes if I get a chance

Cheers,

Morrie

 

[Ross]

Hi Morrie,

Bummer on the crystal over order mate, sorry I didn't spot it, I'm usually pretty good at picking up mistakes; but it'll keep fine in an airtight container - Being a speciallty malt it's storabillity once cracked is pretty good.
The vacuum packs will loosen up over time, due to plastic not being the perfect air barrier - but if kept cool & dark they will again last months without any problems.

Looking forward to hearing how the day goes (take some pics if you can) & how your previous AG turned out..

Cheers Ross

 

[Morrie0069]

Left over crsytal is safely stored in airtight container in the pantry now. Thanks for the phone call Ross, it certainly made me feel better. Another example of your great customer service

First boil is underway. I'm definitely not doing another AG without a larger pot - the amount of time taken up is a PITA and could be put to better use - enjoying other brews

Off to check boil and look in on my 10 week old boy - who says you can't do both!

Cheers,

Morrie