90 minute boil question

[Reman]

Technically boiling the wort will only give you Maillard reactions as tha temperature for caramelisation is a fair way above boiling.

The amount of SMM, the precursor to DMS, can be controlled during the malting process. These days maltsters produce vastly reduced amounts of SMM, even in Pilsner malt. Brulosophy sent a 30 min boil sample to a lab and the measured level of DMS was below detectable levels.

But as some one pointed out before, if a recipe calls for a 90 min boil then it's probably needed to get the same post boil SG and similar flavours.

 

[mckenry]

Something not mentioned is the time boiling before the first hop addition.

Hot break proteins can supposedly cling to hop matter and reduce isomerisation/utilisation so 15-30 mins prior to the first addition allows a lot of that matter to drop back into the wort.

Also before dms can be removed from the wort, it needs to be converted from the precursor smm. A longer boil helps ensure that happens to an acceptable degree but as mentioned above, you'd be very hard pressed to find a modern 2-row that needs 90 mins for this.

Wort colour,flavour and concentration are very real reasons - depends what you want in the final beer.

This is why I do a 75 min boil. The first 15 are dedicated to achieving an 'uninterrupted' hot break. (Hot break is NOT the foam - common misunderstanding), skimming foam (personal choice) and getting to the point where I like the look of the boil. Then the 'real' 60 minutes can start.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

I grabbed JW Pils Malt direct from the factory in Spreyton - I only did a 60 minute boil (avoided the 30 minutes for a good international Ale Malt) and no problems.

FWIR - one of the beers went into TAS HBC in 2014 - and no notes of DMS.

Did a couple of IPA with it and some extra crystal and cara-stuff and it was excellent.

 

[technobabble66]

Something not mentioned is the time boiling before the first hop addition.

Hot break proteins can supposedly cling to hop matter and reduce isomerisation/utilisation so 15-30 mins prior to the first addition allows a lot of that matter to drop back into the wort.

....

What about First Wort Hopping?
I've done FWH for the last few beers and it's worked really well for smooth bittering. Not sure if there were any haze issues. I'd need to do side-by-sides, but they may've been a little less transparent than the previous several brews (- though it could be from other factors also).

 

[goatchop41]

When you find a modern pilsner malt that needs it let me know.

I'm right with you on this. The maltsters have it under control for us. Much like some steps in mash schedules have been made unnecessary by modern malting processes, so has the need for an extended boil (when considering DMS). For whatever my 2 cents of anecdotal evidence is worth to you, I've done 4 batches containing majority pils malt with 60 min boil, and no DMS. Ditto for my most recent beer, majority pils malt with only a 30 min boil. All of these are no-chill too. The first one was actually a 20L batch chilled in a 30L fermenter - so heaps of head space, which is supposed to be a road straight to DMS city!

As many have already said, it's a different story if you're boiling down to get a higher OG, or for Maillard reactions.
Not having done a longer boil in order to get some Maillard reactions for flavour, I have a question regarding it - couldn't you just draw off 3-4L, boil the heck out of it seperately on your stovetop to reduce it a heap (to almost a syrup), then add it back in? Or does that not give as strong of a flavour?

 

[manticle]

Both are good for different beers. Depends what you want. Try a SMASH wee heavy using only maris or golden promise and a three+ hour boil. Similarly doppelbock.

I have tried separate syrup reduction and like it for some uk beers but it is different from an extended boil on the whole wort in my experience.

 

[goatchop41]

Both are good for different beers. Depends what you want. Try a SMASH wee heavy using only maris or golden promise and a three+ hour boil. Similarly doppelbock.

I have tried separate syrup reduction and like it for some uk beers but it is different from an extended boil on the whole wort in my experience.

Cheers Manticle.
I'm assuming that the separate boil would be a quick and easy way to get some extra colour and flavours in, but wouldn't match the complexity and/or intensity of a full volume extended boil?

 

[manticle]

That would be my take. There are beers where you want the full on hit, others where you just want a suggestion.

 

[Roosterboy]

As rude and Yankinoz mentioned the longer the boil the more isomerization of alpha acids from hops and so the
more soluble they are and so more bitterness.

 

[manticle]

To a point. Won't get much more from 90 than 60, bugger all more from 120 compared to 90.

 

[michaeld16]

I grabbed JW Pils Malt direct from the factory in Spreyton - I only did a 60 minute boil (avoided the 30 minutes for a good international Ale Malt) and no problems.

FWIR - one of the beers went into TAS HBC in 2014 - and no notes of DMS.

Did a couple of IPA with it and some extra crystal and cara-stuff and it was excellent.

can you purchase malt straight frim there?