60min boil for extracts? Why

[pablo_h]

I've got Jamils and Palmers "brewing classic styles" and was looking at it for some porter ideas. They give the recipes as an extract version first.
Why do they boil extracts for 60min in their recipes? Seems like a waste.
The only thing I can think of is to match the bittering hops recipe schedule, is that right?
Also and if so, can be completely skipped if using a kit beer that's prehopped for bitterness? -That question just for future knowledge, because I plan to buy Munton's marie ottis LME for $13 rather than a more expensive coopers kit can for ~$18-20 anyway since I already have some british style hops like goldings, kent and fuggles. Also planning on using nottingham yeast rather than coopers kit yeast.

 

[Rocker1986]

It would be for bittering hop additions, yes.

You could use a pre-hopped kit, but then the recipe would turn out differently due to the flavours in the kit likely being different from the original extract recipe.

 

[pablo_h]

Any thought's on whether it's detrimental to malt extract though? Like sacrificing malt flavours of any already boiled malt again just for a the sake of the hops?

I've been reading the book more and it goes on about partials instead, but covers the fact if you want to partial boil and replicate the bittering, hops and the recipe in general, the OG must be exactly the same because that matters too. Doing a partial means at least some malt extract isn't boiled again for so long though.

So has anyone compared a full extract boil with a partial boil (keeping the OG the same), and detected any malt flavour difference from that way and from boiling an already processed extract so long?

 

[Rocker1986]

That's probably why a lot of extract recipes feature smaller volume boils and not usually that long either. I didn't do many extract recipes before I moved to AG, and I can't even remember how long they were boiled for. Didn't notice any problems in the finished beers though.

 

[spog]

I think Beersmith has a podcast on this topic with Charlie Bamforth .
It was a couple of yrs ago but it would still be available to listen to.

 

[Bribie G]

These extract brewers are a weird mob, best not to ask.

 

[Benn]

I've listened to a lot of those beer smith pod casts and I get a bit confused with who said what but in general I think doing a full boil of extract ingredients is a thing of the past. They speak of a limited variety of poor quality extract ingredients in the earlier days, perhaps the 60min boil was needed to clean those kits up a bit as well as for any bittering hop additions.
They seem to agree that the quality, variety and storage (LHBS) of extract ingredients these days is superior to 15 years ago when they were boiling everything, seemingly negating the need for a full boil every time.

FWIW, when making a partial, I usually dump the tin of goo and dry extract in the pot at the end of the boil, mix everything in, pour into the FV and top up with water. Then clean up all the mess.

 

[Yob]

Erm.. If doing full extract, you still need to do bittering and other additions as per any all grain boil. If cube hopping, I'd only do a 20 min boil.

 

[pablo_h]

Hmm.
Been playing around with brewers friend and 2kg MO grain costs the same as 1.5kg extract and for a 9l brew that's all I need according to Brewers friend for a 5% ABV porter.
I do have a 19L pot, mesh bags, (along with 200g med crystal, 100g choc. Plus Northern brewer and fuggles/golding hops- already have them - and I have to go to a HBS to buy 200g brown malt barley anyway...) Might think about BIAB if I'm only doing 9L brews.

Going to have to go into a brew shop and find out the production and best before dates for any extract they have I guess. I'll make my mind up then...

E: In the meantime, just so this isn't a partial or BIAB ag post, I'm still going ahead with a single coopers extract stout kit, a wheat beer, and maybe trying a cali/steam beer type extract. I really just like english ales a lot, and willing to spend on porters, bitters, brown ales etc and do what ever it takes even if buying hops and steeping speciality grains! The US or aussie ales I'm happy to be mainly extract.

 

[pablo_h]

I've been playing around with learning stuff (reading and podcats), and using brewers mate etc. It seems the only difference between a 60min boil and a 30min boil in IBUs for my recipe is 5 points. Almost bugger all, and if it makes people feel better it only takes 5g hop pellets to bring it back up and keep that 30min in your life.

 

[pcmfisher]

I reckon boiling hops for a longer time smoothes out the bitterness. I could be talking out of my arse but that is what I find.

I compared a 60min, 15min, 0min citra ale at 30ibu with another brew with lot more citra at just 15min to the same bitterness and found the short boil seemed harsher.

As I said, I could be imagining things.

 

[Elz]

First wort hopping is meant to produce smoother bitterness; so your arguement probably rings true.

Could be wrong though!