3v AG to BIAB No Chill - A downgrade of major success

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I'm personally of the opinion (freely given... if you don't want it too bad) that there is probably more benefit in asking whether to chill or not. Having had recent trouble getting aroma that I want I'm going back to chilling unless my fv is full. Hot side - not sure there is much difference save efficiency and clarity (both probably not the biggest issue at our scale). My2c
 
Still fermenting my first beers done on my 3V (since upgrading from BIAB). So can't comment on the final beer, but the worts I'm getting in the kettle and super clear, the boil foam itself seems more consistent, hard to explain but there is less random chunky stuff in the boil break. There's probably science proving there is no difference, but super clear wort into the kettle from recirculating the mash is awesome.
 
manticle said:
No.
Heat above about 80 sees alpha acids isomerising which allows them to dissolve more effectively, thus adding to bitterness.

While volatile aromatic compounds will not be driven off as they would be in an open vessel, they are delicate and I believe the extended heat will change their chemistry.
Fair point. I am aware of the acids still isomerising above 80C, though in my experience no-chilling I haven't noticed any beers having noticeably more bitterness than I expected when constructing recipes.
I measured the temp while I let the urn sit for its 15 mins post flameout last brew day, it dropped to 92C before I transferred to the cube. I didn't take a cube temp measurement though, will do next time.

Would it be fair to say that the isomerisation 'rate' for want of a better word, drops as the temperature drops? e.g. if you steeped hops in wort at 82C, there wouldn't be as much bitterness extracted as there would be at 97C?
 
Pretty sure that is the case, yes.

I no chill and I don't notice a heck of a lot of unwanted bitterness either but I also design my own recipes based around my own tastes. It's a bit like adding a few bullet chillis to a meal and saying it's not that spicy. My palate likes the chilli, is used to the chilli and I add the level I like. A non chilli eating person may sweat and cry, a total chilli freak might not even taste it.

I have done side by sides (chill/nc, same recipe) and there is a definite difference with super late hopped beers (different rather than better or worse).
Less hoppy beers I think the difference fades.
 
I think that's the thing really, working it out for one's own tastes. I don't have a chiller so I can't do a side by side test like that. In saying that, I don't adjust my hop additions for NC but the beers turn out as intended so I see no reason to, although I don't do any huge late additions either, so that might have something to do with it.
 
Never adjusted mine either. Only would if I thought they were unbalanced or too bitter. Definitely is different for late hops though -no question but there are so many ways to tweak I don't stress.
 
That is my approach as well. I'll look into it further if I'm planning a batch with a big late hop addition but otherwise my usual process/additions has been working perfectly well for me, and others who have sampled the resultant beers. :)
 
Hey mate cool you are knocking out good beers

You like BIAB cool

I still dont get the sparge issue you had with the 3 V system its got to be easier than sparging BIAB

Anyway its here nor there you are brewing how you like to to so good on ya all the best
 
manticle said:
No.
Heat above about 80 sees alpha acids isomerising which allows them to dissolve more effectively, thus adding to bitterness.

While volatile aromatic compounds will not be driven off as they would be in an open vessel, they are delicate and I believe the extended heat will change their chemistry.
I have tried to play around with my no chill based on this idea. I have started leaving my whirlpool till I get to about 85, then cubing with hops. I can see a difference in aroma, I've never chilled so can only compare to my other beers cubed at higher temps.
 
chrisluki said:
Hey mate, why do you find batch sparging to be so time consuming?

I do it pretty crudely and there is little more than 15 - 20 minutes in the whole process for me?

After mash i pour off a little to clear the tube in my false bottom mash tun and then run it all off (gravity fed) into the kettle. I then top back up my mash tun with the require liquid in 5l lots form my jug and pour it over my mash paddle to make sure it doesn't disturb the grain too much. I then leave it for 15 and then run off again. I hit my OG's every time?

Just wondering if I am not giving this process enough attention?
Mate same for me - anywhere 15-30 mins but I still had to setup the HLT and hoses, do two run offs to clear the wort and then pack it all up once done. BIAB takes about 30 seconds to complete the process - by lifting the bag. On top of this my results with BIAB give me a beer with more body and depth. Under 3v for me my beers were always a little watery - ALWAYS. After tasting my first BIAB I noticed a difference immediately in regards to the BODY of the beer. In all honesty I feel kind of shit as a brewer. To spruik about a very rudimentry form of brewing as being better than that of 3v seems as though I must have been doing something wrong. Ive been to heaps of brew demos, Ive googled, Ive watched youtube and I have read. Nothing I was doing about 3v was wrong but my results with BIAB are better. I think there is a reason too as to why the Braumeister has been so successful... its glorified BIAB every day of the week. Its BIAFSSV (Brew in a fancy stainless steel vessel :lol:... Though Id KILL to own one :)).

Yob said:
Can you tell me the difference between no chilling from BIAB and no chilling from 3v?

I'm glad you've got it going with your old man, that's cool..
No difference at all IMO.
 
Bribie G trots out an old picture once again:

When all grain home brewing started to take off in the 1970s the question was "well, how do they do that in Breweries" and, as per the normal human instinct of copying what works well and then tinkering, most home brewers attempted to build an extremely scaled down version of:

encyclopedia brewing.png

Now we can do that of course, but until modern times it was the only practicable way of making beer on an industrial scale without resorting to something hypothetical like this:

bag hoist industrial.jpg

In a way, breweries such as Coopers use almost a BIAB stage using a mash filter where the mash is squeezed in huge bags in a hydraulic press. If they found a way to actually mash in these bags (and if the accountants found there would be a ten cents per litre advantage in doing so they'd be onto it in a flash) then BIAB would have gone industrial.
 
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