3 way L port ball valve vs X piece

[iralosavic]

I have a plumbing scenario where I would like to be able to control flow from one source to three outputs.

One way to do this is to use a T and attach one ball valve to that and a 3 way ball valve to the other end. This would create minimal diversions to flow as the L port is designed with this inmind and there is only small dip in the T where before the 3 way.

The other option is to use a + or X piece or whatever you want to call it and just attach single ball valves to all 3 points.

My questions is would the latter option cause any noticable issues with flow or any other issues I haven't considered? This is for attaching directly to a pump output, so having the T plus 3 way valve is getting quite a long relay of fittings PLUS the flow speed control using the 3 way valve starts opening one port when closing the other, so in the event where I want to drain to the boil kettle instead of pump through a HX during a fly sparge, I would get a partial HX flow back into the MLT if I need to limit the boiler output.

I hope this reads more easily than it sounds lol


Cheers

 

[Feldon]

Not sure if this 3-way ball valve suits your application and the issue you are are dealing with. But from reading the product description it seems to combine the functions of L-type 3-way valve (directs flow from one inlet to two possible outlets) and the T-type 3-way valve (same as L-type but also allows all three ports to be open, or allow flow across the valve). Or I might be wrong.

Anyway, its cheap at $29. Last time I looked this place (in US) was OK on shipping costs.

Link : http://www.brewershardware.com/1-2-FPT-3-Way-Ball-Valve-TFBV123WT.html

Edit: added link. Edit2: spelling

 

[GrumpyPaul]

Excuse my ignorance - I was thinking about plumbing options recently too.

Does this type of ball valve allow the flow to have 3 states "Outlet A" or "Outlet B" or "OFF". (can you turn it off and stop the flow going to either A or B)

Or does it just act to divert from the inlet to either A or B only.

Hope this makes sense...

 

[djar007]

It explains all the states in the picture mate. Pretty cool little tap.

 

[Feldon]

Excuse my ignorance - I was thinking about plumbing options recently too.

Does this type of ball valve allow the flow to have 3 states "Outlet A" or "Outlet B" or "OFF". (can you turn it off and stop the flow going to either A or B)

Or does it just act to divert from the inlet to either A or B only.

Hope this makes sense...

Hope these pics help. They explain the flow configurations of the two types of thee way ball valves - L-type and T-type.

 

[Camo6]

Why do these threads always pop up after I've made a relevant, under researched purchase? Those T taps look pretty handy.

 

[iralosavic]

Not sure if this 3-way ball valve suits your application and the issue you are are dealing with. But from reading the product description it seems to combine the functions of L-type 3-way valve (directs flow from one inlet to two possible outlets) and the T-type 3-way valve (same as L-type but also allows all three ports to be open, or allow flow across the valve). Or I might be wrong.

Anyway, its cheap at $29. Last time I looked this place (in US) was OK on shipping costs.

Link : http://www.brewershardware.com/1-2-FPT-3-Way-Ball-Valve-TFBV123WT.html

Edit: added link. Edit2: spelling

I'm having difficulty getting my head around these flow paths haha I need to draw myself a diagram, but it "sounds" like it's able to do what I want hmm

In the most basic of terms, what I want is to be able to divert flow from one input source to one out of two outputs at a time, but while reducing the flow of one output NOT start to open the flow in the other, which is exactly what happens with an L port.

Can anyone with a better brain interpret this and figure out if the T port allows this?

 

[iralosavic]

Woah, 3 new posts since I wrote. Shall read now.

 

[iralosavic]

Ok so I don't really need the extra flow options that the T port offers, what I need is a 3 way that, when progressively opening B, C is remaining completely closed while A is fully open the whole time.

Which brings me back to the option of a 4 way FSP ( like a female +) with 3 valves, as my actual design includes a bleeder valve too, which in the case of a 3 way valve, would be positioned before it in the chain.

Ill attach a pic of this example.

 

[iralosavic]

So here is the other option, which involves the x or + piece and 3 standard valves. The problem is the wort sitting between all the closed valves right up in the nipples and creating a bad flow path; or is this not a problem?

 

[iralosavic]

Here

 

[Truman42]

Due to the mechanical design of the ball inside the valve you cant keep one closed fully while the other is progressively opened. As the ball closes on one it opens on the other, both in a T or an L valve. Your best bet is to put another ball valve past C to your MLT. That way you can shut it off and open the L valve so you divert your liquor from your hex and pump through A and out through B to the kettle. It wont matter if you open it just a smidge to restrict flow for fly sparging as your ball valve on C will be fully closed anyway.

That is of course if this is what your trying to acheive. Im just assuming thats why you want to do this??

Then you only need an L valve and a straight ball valve vs a cross piece and 3 ball valves. And less valves to open and close.

i think thats how I will do mine as I am already using an L valve but havent started fly sparging yet.

 

[iralosavic]

Due to the mechanical design of the ball inside the valve you cant keep one closed fully while the other is progressively opened. As the ball closes on one it opens on the other, both in a T or an L valve. Your best bet is to put another ball valve past C to your MLT. That way you can shut it off and open the L valve so you divert your liquor from your hex and pump through A and out through B to the kettle. It wont matter if you open it just a smidge to restrict flow for fly sparging as your ball valve on C will be fully closed anyway.

That is of course if this is what your trying to acheive. Im just assuming thats why you want to do this??

Then you only need an L valve and a straight ball valve vs a cross piece and 3 ball valves. And less valves to open and close.

i think thats how I will do mine as I am already using an L valve but havent started fly sparging yet.

Well I guess I'm just trying to figure out the best balance of function vs cost vs most concise arrangement.

You are right that adding another 2 way ball valve after the boil kettle output of the 3 way would solve the whole problem, but is this really a better option than using 3x 2 ways on a + piece? The + piece has less total weight/length hanging off the pump and is more cost effective too. However, there are multiple deadspace pockets in the flow path (I have no idea if this will have a measurable negative impact).

What do you reckon is the best arrangement? Baring in mind 2way is around $13 and a 3way $50.

EDIT: This guy has what I'm talking about on his INLET. So I guess it can't be that bad. That's some serious plumbing mazery on his march.

Another:

 

[Truman42]

I meant hang a 2 way ball valve off your MLT return line between the L port and the return line so when you want to fly sparge you just close this valve off and switch your L valve over to your kettle return and open it just enough to give you your 1 litre a minute flow rate. It wont matter that the otherside is still also open as the 2 way valve will restrict flow.

Here is a diagram I whipped up. I think this would be much lighter than hanging a Cross piece and multiple ball valves, although will cost more. Have you tried Blackwoods? Thats where I got mine, but cant remember how much it was.

For that matter you don't really need an L port and could get by with just a Tpiece and 2 x 2 way valves on either side. Close one and crack open the other. Is there a reason you want a cross piece?

 

[Truman42]

i just realised why. Because you want a bleed valve. Okay well do this if its cheaper than buying the L port. (see attached photo)
Close the top 2 valves, open the bleed valve. Once the air is through the pump and its primed with wort close the bleed valve and open the right hand valve and start the pump to start your recirculation. When you want to sparge close the RH valve and crack the left open enough to give you your fly sparge rate of flow. I suppose Im back to your orignal diea of a cross piece though now arent I.

A few options to do it anyway and I dont think mulitple dead space pockets in the flow path will be a problem anywhere. The pump will push the wort to the path of least resistance.

 

[iralosavic]

Thanks for the images, Truman. You definitely like having the HX gravity fed before the pump! My only concern with this arrangement is that my brew "stand" is a rather lowline coffee table, so having the MLT above the HX and the HX above the pump will be a squeeze, if it's even possible.

Your solution is definitely a good one. Considering you already have a 3-way, I'm seeing you use the first design, plus bleed as pictured in the second. You don't work in a trade that involves fitting or plumbing, do you?

EDIT: Oh and I have tried Blackwoods. Their prices are competative, but Gryphon Brewing (no affiliation) has similar if not marginally better prices and I plan on just bundling with the snap-lock quick disconnects to complete my system (I'm OCD like that). A Blackwoods 3-way was $1.50 more than Gryphon, although I could pick it up for free, but no matching QDs there.

 

[iralosavic]

Is this what you mean overall, Truman? Picture=1000 words.

EDIT: analysing this circuit, aside from the pumping distance being shortened, the HX can continue to somewhat assist in maintaining sparging temperatures whilst the recirculation is bypassed. I'm liking this design.

 

[Truman42]

Yes mate spot on. That will work. As long as your bleed valve is below the mash tun it wont matter if the pumps above or below the hex, the weight of the wort from the MLT will push the air out through the bleed valve until the pump is full of wort and you then switch the bleed valve off and open your recirculation valve on the right.

And yes when your sparging and tranferring to the kettle you can keep your hex on if you like. I dont bother as I currently batch sparge but might do it when I give fly sparging a go.

Im not in a trade that involves plumbing or similar (But get a good discount through balckwoods from work, and we often buy 2 way valves etc to use at work, keep as spares in the back cupboard where they are often forgotten about)

Ive played around with the design in my pictures above quite a bit trying to get the pump to bleed properly and used to just drop the MLT inlet hose down into a jug. But will now be incorporating your bleed/sample valve idea.

 

[booargy]

I wouldn't be putting the heat exchanger on the inlet side.

 

[Truman42]

I wouldn't be putting the heat exchanger on the inlet side.

Its not on the inlet side. He has it on the outlet of the MLT.