2 Hour Spargefest!

[PostModern]

Any other tips for enclosing the manifold?

Don't? The grain is a filter. A finer filter is not needed. Just recirculate the first runnings. In my system, I know I've f^*ed up if the wort is not bright when more than 2 litres of runnings is collected. Just a generic copper pipe with slots manifold. I dunno about this mesh bag stuff you blokes are on about. If you have a need for them, you're doing something wrong.

 

[drsmurto]

Interesting, I might have to try a voile bag too but I thought it would have increased the changes of a stuck sparge. I use a Beer Belly falsie and tried recirculating the first few litres but it never seems to clear much at all. I also find a lot of particles manage to work their way through the screen perforations and around the edges.

How slow are you running the wort out Afromaiko?

The slower it is the higher the clarity i find. Its a balancing act between speed and clarity.

I get it to clear (falsie) within 2L, sometimes 1L by running it out slow and then speeding it up as the sparge takes place (batch sparging).

Aim for this year is to try out fly sparging and see what difference it makes now that i have a proper tap on my HLT.

 

[Jakechan]

Ahhh...thats better. Just had a long chat with Ross. Thanks heaps Ross :icon_cheers: , everything is so much clearer now, and its quite obvious that I didnt really know what I was doing before. Hey, at the end of the day I have still made beer, but at least I now know what Im supposed to be doing when it comes to sparge time!
(I hope that answers a few questions)

Back to the drawing board for now, a few small changes to be made, then I shall plan a brew for next week, maybe a Porter to prepare for the cooler weather.

Thanks again to all for your help.

Cheers,
Jake

 

[jonocarroll]

Don't? The grain is a filter. A finer filter is not needed. Just recirculate the first runnings.

But my manifold filled with grain, and I couldn't run off any liquid. I understand the purpose of the grain and the manifold, but I was looking for a way to prevent the situation I had. I wasn't looking to better filter, I was looking to stop the stuck sparge.

 

[PostModern]

But my manifold filled with grain, and I couldn't run off any liquid. I understand the purpose of the grain and the manifold, but I was looking for a way to prevent the situation I had. I wasn't looking to better filter, I was looking to stop the stuck sparge.

I'd have to suggest there's something wrong with your manifold. How wide are the slots? How tight does it hold together in the tun? How is the grain getting into it to fill it up?

 

[TidalPete]

Don't? The grain is a filter. A finer filter is not needed. Just recirculate the first runnings. In my system, I know I've f^*ed up if the wort is not bright when more than 2 litres of runnings is collected. Just a generic copper pipe with slots manifold. I dunno about this mesh bag stuff you blokes are on about. If you have a need for them, you're doing something wrong.

PoMo,

Each to his own I guess mate. :icon_cheers:
As I normally get around 88\90 % efficiency (Depending on the grain bill of course) from the mash, my nylon bag can't be doing any harm.
I can't seem to get my whirlpooling to work properly so have opted for a ss Termimesh filter instead of a pickup tube. Seems to work well.

TP

 

[jonocarroll]

I'd have to suggest there's something wrong with your manifold. How wide are the slots? How tight does it hold together in the tun? How is the grain getting into it to fill it up?

That's entirely possible - I purchased it with the tun from another brewer (who claimed he had no problems, but why would he tell me of problems?). I haven't really seen anyone else's manifold up close, but the slots look reasonably large. Judging by the way they're cut, I'd say someone's used a drop saw to cut them. Probably 1mm wide. Not exactly sure at the moment. It holds together in the tun, I'm not sure how the grain could get in there apart from the slots.

I've considered making a new manifold with some more copper, but if I can avoid this by using a manifold bag or similar, then all the better.

 

[PostModern]

PoMo,

Each to his own I guess mate. :icon_cheers:
As I normally get around 88\90 % efficiency (Depending on the grain bill of course) from the mash, my nylon bag can't be doing any harm.
I can't seem to get my whirlpooling to work properly so have opted for a ss Termimesh filter instead of a pickup tube. Seems to work well.

TP

Sure. But if you can make a manifold from less parts, with less clean-up and still get good efficiency, then why not? I would hate to have to salvage a mesh thing from the bottom of my tun full of hot grain, then clean, dry deodorise before next use. As so many (most??) brewers don't need one, I would question why the need for one arises and address that instead of the quick fix.

That's entirely possible - I purchased it with the tun from another brewer (who claimed he had no problems, but why would he tell me of problems?). I haven't really seen anyone else's manifold up close, but the slots look reasonably large. Judging by the way they're cut, I'd say someone's used a drop saw to cut them. Probably 1mm wide. Not exactly sure at the moment. It holds together in the tun, I'm not sure how the grain could get in there apart from the slots.

I've considered making a new manifold with some more copper, but if I can avoid this by using a manifold bag or similar, then all the better.

Yeah, sounds like there's your problem. Good luck with the curtain cloth.

 

[jonocarroll]

Well sounds like that's a fairly bad size for manifold slots then. Cheers PostModern. Question is - which is the better option; use a bag with the nice wide slots, or buy some straight copper and cut new, thinner slotted sections? Decisions, decisions.

 

[Steve]

Ahhh...thats better. Just had a long chat with Ross. Thanks heaps Ross :icon_cheers: , everything is so much clearer now, and its quite obvious that I didnt really know what I was doing before. Hey, at the end of the day I have still made beer, but at least I now know what Im supposed to be doing when it comes to sparge time!
(I hope that answers a few questions)

Back to the drawing board for now, a few small changes to be made, then I shall plan a brew for next week, maybe a Porter to prepare for the cooler weather.

Thanks again to all for your help.

Cheers,
Jake

Onya Jake - onwards and upwards. Good for you.
Cheers
Steve

 

[pint of lager]

Like Pomo said, the husks form the filter. The false bottom or manifold hold back the husks. At the start, a few chunks of grain and plenty of haze gets through, recirculate, or just collect in a jug and pour back through the grainbed. Some false bottoms only need a few litres recirculated. I return about 50% of the original mashin volume of water back through the grain bed.

The amount you recirculate is very dependant on your personal setup. What works for one person may not work for another. Grain crush, water chemistry, grain bill, mash temperature, water:grain ratio, adjuncts, mash depth, false bottom size and experience are all going to affect your runoff.

For your first few mashes, do yourself a favour. Concentrate only on the mash, don't be building brewing gear, minding kids etc. Don't worry about mash pH, this is only fine tweaking. Don't worry about efficiency, this will increase with equipment tweaking and experience. Don't use wheat or oats as part of the grist.

Manifolds should have plenty of slots and some of the grain will get through at the very start of runoff. Even if a few grains get through to the boiler, they won't affect the end result.

If you start adding a fine layer of mesh such as viole or cheesecloth, this will be prone to the fine pores being blocked completely by smaller husk particles and a totally blocked sparge occurring.

Remember, it is the grain husk bed that does the filtering. The manifold or false bottom hold back the husks only. At the start, some grain particles will come through. Recirculate them. At the start of sparging, the husk bed is formed.

 

[Jakechan]

All good advice POL, and you are echoing some of what Ross told me today.
I am going to make a new manifold with hacksaw slots (instead of 3mm holes - what was I thinking), and will not be using a voile bag.

I will report back next week when successful

Cheers,
Jake

 

[afromaiko]

How slow are you running the wort out Afromaiko?

The slower it is the higher the clarity i find. Its a balancing act between speed and clarity.

I get it to clear (falsie) within 2L, sometimes 1L by running it out slow and then speeding it up as the sparge takes place (batch sparging).

Aim for this year is to try out fly sparging and see what difference it makes now that i have a proper tap on my HLT.

From the talk here, probably too quickly. But never had the problem when I used braid and I always ran that pretty quick.

 

[samhighley]

I'd be concerned about the direction of the copper pipe.

I think that the sections of the pipe that contain the slots should run in the direction of the outlet.

This makes sense if you think about how the wort is going to flow towards the outlet.

I don't have any specific facts to back this up, other than the fact that every copper manifold i've ever seen (including Palmer's How To Brew) have them running parallel to the outlet tube.

Sam

 

[samhighley]

This is the nice, bright, clear, fast output that I get while batch sparging with my copper manifold constructed exactly to Palmer's specs:

Sam

 

[TidalPete]

Well sounds like that's a fairly bad size for manifold slots then. Cheers PostModern. Question is - which is the better option; use a bag with the nice wide slots, or buy some straight copper and cut new, thinner slotted sections? Decisions, decisions.

Fellas,

The only reason I used a nylon bag in the first place was NOT because of any problems with my manifold but because I wanted as clear a runoff as possible into my kettle.
My manifold works perfectly well without the nylon bag & I cut my slots with a hacksaw blade (About 1.2mm). The nylon bag is held at the top by a band of velcro & has never come apart in the 88 times it has been used.
I hope this clears up any misunderstandings you may have gleaned from my posts PoMo? What's your efficiency?

TP

 

[pint of lager]

Sammy, that is a great photograph, nice and clear. Really nice work with the stainless steel tubing ****. But, it is a picture of your drained kettle?

Jake is worried about his mash and manifold.

 

[samhighley]

But, it is a picture of your drained kettle?

Nope, it's the first runnings going into the kettle.

 

[samhighley]

Here is the manifold in the 50 litre icebox mash tun:




Here is the underside of the manifold:




Here's a more arty view of the slots




And this is how the manifold hooks into the tun. Note that the manifold simply slips out of that fitting for easy removal of the manifold. I've tested this fitting with some food coloring in the water while the tun drained, and there is no liquid attracted toward that fitting:




Most fittings were soldered with lead-free solder. No leaky joints:

 

[pint of lager]

Looks absolutely delicious Sammy. A nice red hue too.

Palmer's work is always excellent and a perfect starting point for any brewer.