2 Hour Spargefest!

[Jakechan]

Today I brewed my 3rd AG. I thought it was supposed to get easier?

On the menu today was Ross's Nelson Sauvin summer Ale.

I followed his recipe to the letter, although I dont think I used the exact wheat malt that he uses.
Hit my mash temp of 64 spot on which was nice. Then I set about fixing my kettle drain.

I posted a pic of it yesterday, when I had a sharp 90 bend in the copper pick up tube. Well, I lashed out and bought a cheap tube bender this morning and made a new tube, this one flowing much better in a nice S bend.

Thanks to Schooey, Darren and Thirsty Boy for their advice.



Next job (while still mashing) was to make an immersion chiller. Ive seen the pics on the net, how hard can it be? Ahem....
Well, it turned out to be pretty tricky to get the bending started, even though I was wrapping it around a corny it was that first wrap that was the killer.
Anyway, I finally got into the swing of things till I got distracted, looked down and there's a bloody kink in the pipe!

Shit. No way out of that is there, just have to cut and rejoin. However, once I had cut the pipe, which was pretty much right in the middle of the 18m length, I realised I had enough anyway, so that was a nice recovery.

Right, time to sparge!

This time I took the advice of all and sundry and turned my copper manifold holes pointing down.

I did my last AG with the holes pointing up and without any trouble. So I start to sparge and within a few minutes it all just stops. Hardly a dribble. Bugger! What should I do, go and hit AHB and ask some silly Stuck Sparge questions? Nah, bugger that, I'll just be told to do a search!

So I upended the entire esky into my other esky, and ripped out the manifold, gave it a good blow through with the hose and whacked it back in the other way, holes up. Poured the mash back in and got back into spargeing. Well, 2 hours later I finally finished!


Some Red Rover Ale helped me along the way (AG2)

I did lots of recirc, using a 2 litre jug to scoop the wort out of the kettle and ease it back into the mash/lauter tun. My HLT is an urn so it was keeping the temp right there the whole time. Although this was still a slow sparge, it didnt get stuck like it did the first time. But compared to my 2nd AG which was really well flowing Im not sure what the problem was. The different grains? MO this time vs Golden Promise? All grains cracked by Ross and bought at the same time.



A big problem now was that I didnt have the foresight to properly mark the HLT or kettle with volumes, so I didnt really know how much I was spargeing with, or how much I was ending up with. But I was keeping an eye on the wort gravity and stopped the sparge when it got down to 1.005.

The boil was fine, although I thought I might have had too much in the kettle to start with so I adjusted the boil time adding 10mins at the start. Had I not done this I probably would have hit my final volume spot on, as in the end I was a little short.


In this shot you can clearly see the 80min and 20min hop additions in the way of the tide marks.

I was really amazed at how quickly the temp dropped with the wort chiller, the cold break forming within minutes of starting the hose (no water restrictions here - its open slather)

Then my next decision was upon me. I had the wort down to about 30, and I had a syphon hose ready, and a clean fermenter, but not sure how long to wait after whirlpooling etc. So I just gave it a good stir for 30 secs, let it sit for a minute then syphoned to the fermenter through a hop sock. This captured all the hops but the fermenter still has trub and protein I presume? (anyone who's still reading care to elucidate? )
I was really happy with the syphon effect, it worked perfectly all the way to the bottom, I just had to heel the kettle a little to starboard for the last bit.

What a great day
And I can tell you now, I will NEVER brew a kit again.

Cheers,
Jake

Final result:
21 litres to fermenter
OG of 1.054
Efficiency 80% 73%
And pitched the American Ale yeast at 1810hours.

Type: All Grain
Date: 4/02/2009
Batch Size: 21.00 L
Brewer: Jake
Boil Size: 31.72 L Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 100 min Equipment: Jake's Brewing Engine
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 73.10
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.50 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 91.84 %
0.40 kg Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM) Grain 8.16 %
15.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.40 %] (80 min) Hops 19.0 IBU
15.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.40 %] (20 min) Hops 10.9 IBU
20.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.40 %] (5 min) Hops 4.8 IBU
30.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.40 %] (0 min) Hops -
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.054 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.054 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.35 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 6.39 %
Bitterness: 34.7 IBU Calories: 497 cal/l
Est Color: 4.6 SRM Color: Color


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge Total Grain Weight: 4.90 kg
Sparge Water: 24.55 L Grain Temperature: 25.0 C
Sparge Temperature: 75.6 C TunTemperature: 25.0 C
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge Step Time Name Description Step Temp
75 min Mash In Add 12.78 L of water at 70.7 C 64.0 C



Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).


EDIT: I just realised I didnt readjust Beersmith for the actual final volume, thus my 80% efficiency is really 73% (sounds more like it)

 

[browndog]

Good work Jake,
Wheat can be a real PITA for causing stuck sparges, I would not blame it on your manifold being turned downwards. You can remedy it by having some rice gulls handy to throw in the mash to aid drainage if it happens again. Don't worry about the trub in the fermenter, it won't affect your beer, some reckon it acts like a nutrient for the yeast. One thing I don't follow is that at the top of your post you mention your new kettle drain, then you go on to say that you used a syphon to drain your kettle, what is the go there ?

cheers

Browndog

 

[Sammus]

You can remedy it by having some rice gulls handy...

:lol: will anyone ever refer to them as 'hulls' again? Makes me laugh every time. :beer: to Tony.

 

[Jakechan]

One thing I don't follow is that at the top of your post you mention your new kettle drain, then you go on to say that you used a syphon to drain your kettle, what is the go there ?

cheers

Browndog

BD, the tap is fitted 60mm above the base of the kettle. Without a syphoning effect I would be left with a few litres still in the kettle.
But it sucked all the way down to the bottom as the copper pick up tube is bent down to the base of the kettle.
Cheers,
Jake

 

[PostModern]

Probably too fine a crush caused your stuck sparge. Or too much stirring. When I brew with MO (even with >10% wheat in the mash), I crack it coarse (say breaking the kernels into 3 pieces with minimal flour), stir only enough to wet the grain and it just floats up to the top of the mash tun. So far as I can tell, it doesn't ever touch the manifold until the lauter is almost finished.

 

[Jakechan]

Thanks for the thought PoMo. Also I wonder if I should be putting the water into the mash esky before the grist?
For convenience I am at this stage putting the grains into the esky and puring the water in on top. Would the reverse probably help the situation?

Cheers,
Jake

 

[browndog]

Thanks for the thought PoMo. Also I wonder if I should be putting the water into the mash esky before the grist?
For convenience I am at this stage putting the grains into the esky and puring the water in on top. Would the reverse probably help the situation?

Cheers,
Jake

Yes.


-BD

 

[dpadden]

I've noticed most people add water first to the mash tun, however John Palmer for instance recommends the other way round....any particular reason for this?

 

[TidalPete]

Would the reverse probably help the situation?
Cheers,
Jake

I doubt it Jake. As soon as you mix in your mash all the fine stuff will drop to the bottom anyway.
In 88 Ag's so far I have never had a stuck sparge & only use rice gulls (10% of grain bill) if the bill includes 500g or more of wheat\rye.
I reckon it's partly due to a slowish runoff (Around 1 litre\minute) & the fact that I enclose my manifold in a home-made nylon bag. One of those hop bags with a drawstring at the top does the same job.
I'm another one suggesting you sit your manifold with the holes\slots at the bottom.
May I suggest you consider soldering half those joins on your manifold as those pops will work loose sooner or later. Soldering half the joins will allow you to pull the manifold apart in two pieces for easy cleaning.

TP

PS --- Just saw your post Tony. :icon_cheers:

 

[PostModern]

I always add the grist to the water. Only stuck sparge I've had was caused by knocking the manifold apart with the mash paddle.

 

[Jakechan]

Thanks guys.

Ok then, I have some Swiss Voile here and will get my missus to make me a nice little bag for my manifold.

I will turn the manifold hole side down, with the bag on, but I may also need to put a little spaces under it on the end opposite the tap, as it sits almost flush with the bottom at that end.

I have been put off the Rice Hulls by the comments on Ross's website pertaining to postage. But if I am making a largish order of grains etc I will try and order some. But then as has been said, they may not even be needed if I attend to the other issues.

Ive never soldered copper, but would like to be able to, so I might ask my Engineering mate to show me how.

Thanks again for the help guys, I find this assistance just fantastic, and it makes brewing so much more enjoyable knowing there are people here to help you through the little dramas.

Cheers,
Jake

 

[TidalPete]

I always add the grist to the water. Only stuck sparge I've had was caused by knocking the manifold apart with the mash paddle.

As I have PoMo.
When I had a gravity setup I always tossed a kettle-full of boiling water into the Coleman MT to archieve nought thermal mass then added my strike water, then grain & mixed in.
Just can't see why adding the water to the grain would make much difference except for dough balls?
Now I underlet with my HERMES (Which is adding water to grain anyway).

TP

 

[raven19]

I did lots of recirc, using a 2 litre jug to scoop the wort out of the kettle and ease it back into the mash/lauter tun.

Am I reading this right? You sparged with wort not hot water?

Batch or Fly?

If fly, this may reduce your efficiency as you would be washing sugar from grains with sugared water...

2c.

PS - Well done on the 3rd AG, as they say third time a charm!

Also well done on keeping the sparge to 2 hours considering the stuck sparge and construction work (chiller etc) going on at the same time...

 

[Jakechan]

Am I reading this right? You sparged with wort not hot water?

Both. I ran the first runnings back in to the mash, then added some more water from the HLT, then grabbed some more from the kettle etc.

Cheers,
Jake

 

[PostModern]

Both. I ran the first runnings back in to the mash, then added some more water from the HLT, then grabbed some more from the kettle etc.

Cheers,
Jake

That'll screw with your efficiency. Just run the wort out until it's "bright" then divert to the kettle. Putting too much strong wort back into a mash of declining gravity will just waste some fermentables.

 

[browndog]

I doubt it Jake. As soon as you mix in your mash all the fine stuff will drop to the bottom anyway.
In 88 Ag's so far I have never had a stuck sparge & only use rice gulls (10% of grain bill) if the bill includes 500g or more of wheat\rye.
I reckon it's partly due to a slowish runoff (Around 1 litre\minute) & the fact that I enclose my manifold in a home-made nylon bag. One of those hop bags with a drawstring at the top does the same job.
I'm another one suggesting you sit your manifold with the holes\slots at the bottom.
May I suggest you consider soldering half those joins on your manifold as those pops will work loose sooner or later. Soldering half the joins will allow you to pull the manifold apart in two pieces for easy cleaning.

TP

PS --- Just saw your post Tony. :icon_cheers:

I was only suggesting it in that the mash would be easier to mix Pete, not that it would assist in preventing the stuck sparge.


-BD

 

[Ross]

Both. I ran the first runnings back in to the mash, then added some more water from the HLT, then grabbed some more from the kettle etc.

Cheers,
Jake

pm sent...

Cheers Ross

 

[Steve]

Both. I ran the first runnings back in to the mash, then added some more water from the HLT, then grabbed some more from the kettle etc.

Cheers,
Jake

Thats just bizarre! What/where did you read to put the first runnings back into the mash instead of the kettle?
The only time ive had a stuck sparge is when I accidently put my copper manifold upside down, with the slots facing up.
Cheers
Steve

 

[afromaiko]

I reckon it's partly due to a slowish runoff (Around 1 litre\minute) & the fact that I enclose my manifold in a home-made nylon bag. One of those hop bags with a drawstring at the top does the same job.

Interesting, I might have to try a voile bag too but I thought it would have increased the changes of a stuck sparge. I use a Beer Belly falsie and tried recirculating the first few litres but it never seems to clear much at all. I also find a lot of particles manage to work their way through the screen perforations and around the edges.

 

[jonocarroll]

I like this idea of a manifold bag. I've considered doing something similar with a cut-up splatter shield (SS mesh I guess). As for 3rd time's a charm - bah! My 3rd AG was the only one to get a stuck sparge (granted, it was the only one with wheat ), and a completely stuck one at that. Seems I got a lot of grain in the manifold.

Any other tips for enclosing the manifold?