~100L setup questions

[RelaxedBrewer]

Hey guys,

I looking into building ~100L setup with a few mates. We are basically starting a mini brew club with a get together once a month to brew.

Anyway, I have no experience with this kind of volume and have a couple of questions.

• What kind of burner would I need? Would a 4 ring burner with a high pressure reg cut it?
• I think HERMS would probably be better than an electric RIMS (not sure that a 2200W element would be able to step that volume very well) but don't really know.
• What pump would you recommend when dealing with these volumes?

These are my immediate questions but I am sure that there is a lot that I have not thought of.

Any advice from someone more experienced with larger volume brewing would be much appreciated.

Thanks

RB

 

[QldKev]

I've done a 100L BIAB, and now run a 112L 3V system.

• What kind of burner would I need? Would a 4 ring burner with a high pressure reg cut it?
• It may, but I would go for either NASA / turkey burners OR go electric.

• I think HERMS would probably be better than an electric RIMS (not sure that a 2200W element would be able to step that volume very well) but don't really know.
• I'm doing a 112L batch and 2200w will be too slow. I have a calculator on my website and you will see it's won't cut it. I'm running a 2400w internal RIMS plus the kettle HERMS (HERM-IT) setup. If I was building my system again I would not use the RIMS and would double the HERMS setup.

• What pump would you recommend when dealing with these volumes?
• I'm running a March 809, I have no plans of updating it.

 

[Yob]

While Ive got a 120 lt pot, the most Ive used it for is a 50lt batch (mostly coz Im still building bits n pieces) Im intending on using a 4 ring, I think it depends on your methods to a degree, as Im a fly sparger I can start a low heat while its still running off and be pretty much at boil by the time Im at volume.

of course, this is all theoretical ATM and I may find it doesnt cut the Hot English Mustard when I do ramp it up, though I cant see it not doing the job.

 

[RelaxedBrewer]

Thanks for all that info QldKev.

Where did you end up getting your 120L pot from Yob? Did you go Stainless or Aliminium?

Pump wise I think I have a choice between the Kaixin, Ultimiser brewery and March. Still looking into these pumps at the moment.

 

[QldKev]

I'm using a March 809 on my 3V, and a Kaixin mp-20 on my 1V. Both have been reliable never overheating etc, the Kaixin is a bit harder to prime but runs a bit quieter, not that I would call either loud.

 

[lael]

QldKev - what heat source are you using for 112l batches?

Your 1v was gas from memory? Have you electrical with your 3v? If so.... How many watts and what is your ramp to boil time like?

 

[QldKev]

QldKev - what heat source are you using for 112l batches?

Your 1v was gas from memory? Have you electrical with your 3v? If so.... How many watts and what is your ramp to boil time like?

Both are electric
1V
Single 2,000w uxcel element
This allows matho's controller and a kaixin pump to share the same 10amp feed


3V
HLT, 2 x 2,200w elements (1 more element to be installed eventually)
Mash, RIMS 2,400w + HERMS 2,000w
Kettle, 3 x 2,000w.

The Kettle really needs a bit more as I only get about 0.75c per minute ramp to boil when I'm doing a 132L boil. But with the width of the pot I still get a 12% boil off.

 

[Yob]

Was a private sale from a fellow forum member mate, patience is key for a good bargain..

Trade off was its aluminium... Meh, I would have had to give my first born for a comparable stainless pot of that size

 

[lael]

Sweet, so it takes about 25 min to get from mash out to boiling?

Been thinking about a 100l Brau not that I need it... Sure would be cool though!

 

[punkin]

Hey guys,

I looking into building ~100L setup with a few mates. We are basically starting a mini brew club with a get together once a month to brew.

Anyway, I have no experience with this kind of volume and have a couple of questions.

• What kind of burner would I need? Would a 4 ring burner with a high pressure reg cut it?
• I think HERMS would probably be better than an electric RIMS (not sure that a 2200W element would be able to step that volume very well) but don't really know.
• What pump would you recommend when dealing with these volumes?

These are my immediate questions but I am sure that there is a lot that I have not thought of.

Any advice from someone more experienced with larger volume brewing would be much appreciated.

Thanks

RB

1) I use a 4 ring camping burner on my 160l home built pot for the boil on a BOC adjustable LPG regulator. I do 84 l batches. I have used the pot to boil way in excess of that before.

The 4 ring burner will be fine if you have a nonstandard reg.

2) I don't know much about the Herms V's Rims, but the Rims i supply come with your choice of elements up to 4800 watt.

Can't help with pump questions sorry, although i have a march pump, i prefer gravity and simplicity.

 

[adryargument]

Hey guys,

• What kind of burner would I need? Would a 4 ring burner with a high pressure reg cut it? Yes, but there are more efficient burners. I boil 70-80L with only the 'inner' 3 rings.
• I think HERMS would probably be better than an electric RIMS (not sure that a 2200W element would be able to step that volume very well) but don't really know. Your going to need multiphase or a few different circuits for that level of electric power. 2400w (15a) per circuiit / phase
• What pump would you recommend when dealing with these volumes? A march pump 815 - it should be a decent whirlpool. However flow rescriction will kill it. A blichmann terminator in line for example, will reduce flow by around 1/2.

Edit spellingo

 

[QldKev]

Sweet, so it takes about 25 min to get from mash out to boiling?

Been thinking about a 100l Brau not that I need it... Sure would be cool though!

About 25mins, if I started once all the wort was transferred and turned on all 3 elements. But, I start heating the kettle a bit earlier. I have 3 x 10amp power feeds feeding the elements (I use 4 feeds, but the last only runs the pids and pump).

Feed 1: Switches between HLT1 or RIMS or KETTLE1
Feed 2: Switches between HLT2 or HERMS or KETTLE2
Feed 3: Switches between HLT3 or SPARE or KETTLE3

Once the first runnings is above the kettle elements I can switch power from the HLT3 to a kettle element (KETTLE3) while I am batch sparging. Also normally the temperature is pretty stable so I can even switch the RIMS power to a second kettle element (KETTLE1) while sparging, and leave the HERMS to maintain the temperature by itself. So by the time I have finished the sparge the wort in the kettle is already well above the 77c sparge temp, and I can just switch across the last feed to the last kettle element.

In the case of a Brau, then you would need to wait for the grain to be lifted before hitting the boil elements.

A couple of the local brewers are looking at a 50L 1V, same as my 25L/28L 1V. But one is thinking of an element for the heat exchanger, but keeping a NASA under it for the boil. It will be months, even a year before I think either get them happening. (due to other commitments)

 

[punkin]

• What kind of burner would I need? Would a 4 ring burner with a high pressure reg cut it? Yes, but there are more efficient burners. I boil 70-80L with only the 'inner' 3 rings.
• I think HERMS would probably be better than an electric RIMS (not sure that a 2200W element would be able to step that volume very well) but don't really know. Your going to need multiphase or a few different circuits for that level of electric power. 2400w (15a) per circuiit / phase
• What pump would you recommend when dealing with these volumes? A march pump 815 - it should be a decent whirlpool. However flow rescriction will kill it. A blichmann terminator in line for example, will reduce flow by around 1/2.

Edit spellingo

Just as a point of order, a 15 amp curcuit will run a 3600 watt element (15 amps at 240V) a 10 amp curcuit will run a 2400 watt element (10 amps x 240 volt = 2400 watts.)

 

[Greg.L]

Just buy a big load of firewood, will work better than gas or electric.

 

[manticle]

And be way more inconvenient than either if you have to do it every time.

I started my AG brewing life with firewood and while I have no regrets about the experience, a gas burner and OTS element have made life way easier and cleaner. I brew 20 L batches too so dealing with enough for 100+ would be a PITA.

You need the space for a bonfire and the compost/waste it creates.

 

[lael]

I did 50l the other day. 2400w element in the Brau and 2400w element over the side for the boil. Plugged in from double GPO. Worked a cracker.

 

[RelaxedBrewer]

I just picked up a stainless steal barrel to use as a kettle. Picked up a bargain off gumtree.

I think I am going to go with Keg king burner and HP reg. It is a pretty decent price for that unit.
I might add a over the side electric element to help bring it up to the boil faster. But I think I will wait and see how long it takes with just the burner.

At this stage I am probably going to setup a HERMS system using a spare keg I have.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys

RB

 

[RelaxedBrewer]

I am not sure that I can setup a HERMS or RIMS for a system of this size at my house. Since I am renting I am not going to put in any extra circuitry to the house and a single 2400W element is not going to cut it.

I think I might have to investigate alternate methods for stepping and ramping the mash.

 

[lael]

I don't know about 100l, but I only used 1 element for 50l mashing. You can insulate your pot, close the lid, and you don't really lost that much heat. Ramping was the same speed ( very very close if not...) As doing a single batch. I would hazard a guess that it would be fine. Mash seems to retain heat pretty well anyway.

Also; I ran two 2400w elements from separate outlets on a double GPO and it ran fine. Buuut... YMMV? A sparky care to comment here?

 

[RelaxedBrewer]

After thinking about it more, I might setup a 2400W HERMS so I can at least do a slow ramp mash (55-75C over 1hr 15 or something similar). It would also be useful when doing half batches.

I might be able to setup a system where I pump through an immersion chiller in the HLT to do larger steps (like acid rest to saccharification).

Anyway still researching and thinking about it.