Yet Another Smak-pack Problem

[losp]

i smacked hat baby!
I let it sit for about 4 hours..... nothing. I let it sit for a couple more. Seemed to be the slightest bit more puffy.... not really noticeable. I ended up accepting that it was not going to puff up any more and pitched it into a starter after about 6 - 6.5 hours. did i wait way too long. will it be ok!
Thanks.

 

[katzke]

If the little packet was broke when you opened to make the starter then I doubt anything you did would make any difference to the success or failure of the yeast.
If it fails it was most likely pooped before you popped it.

 

[warra48]

Depending on how old the pack is, 6 to 6 hours is not long at all.

I've had packs which haven't swelled after 3 days. Made a starter with it, and it just turned out fine.

If your starter fires, you're in business.

 

[matti]

How old is the packet and how was it kept?
I had a year old smack back that took 24 hours to swell.
As above if it fires you are away.
Matti

 

[Screwtop]

How old was the smack pack? Tell us about the starter you poured it into. What volume, what did you make it from, what type of container is it in, how did you make it (biled etc), what gravity was it what was the temp when you pitched your starter. If you take a torch and shine it through the container, do you see any bubbles racing up the inside of the container.?????

Cheers,

Screwy

 

[Linz]

Gees..and here I thought the rule was "a day for every month after production" for it to activate..so 4 hrs aint long enough by the OLD rule, let alone 6.5 hrs..should get back into brewing a bit more and catch up...the quick way would be the white labs tubes

 

[losp]

How old was the smack pack? Tell us about the starter you poured it into. What volume, what did you make it from, what type of container is it in, how did you make it (biled etc), what gravity was it what was the temp when you pitched your starter. If you take a torch and shine it through the container, do you see any bubbles racing up the inside of the container.?????

Cheers,

Screwy

got 300gm of light malt extract, mixed with 3L water, boiled for 10 minutes, cooled till around 20, then put the starter in the bottle, gave it a bit of a swirl, then put it in my temp fridge at 12 degrees. That was about 10 hours ago.. just went to check n it then, doesn't look like its had much action. I didn't check the gravity... damn.

 

[Steve]

got 300gm of light malt extract, mixed with 3L water, boiled for 10 minutes, cooled till around 20, then put the starter in the bottle, gave it a bit of a swirl, then put it in my temp fridge at 12 degrees. That was about 10 hours ago.. just went to check n it then, doesn't look like its had much action. I didn't check the gravity... damn.

you put the starter in the fridge?

 

[losp]

you put the starter in the fridge?

Yeah. did i stuff up? the fridge is at a temperature of 12 degrees. I just assumed thats what i should do, as it said so on the back of the pack.

 

[Bribie G]

I usually smack the pack, leave it at about 22 degrees and don't come back to if for about 12 hours to sneak a peek. My last pack of Ringwood took about 15 hours to get hard, then I did an overnight starter and pitched the next evening.

 

[manticle]

Yeah. did i stuff up? the fridge is at a temperature of 12 degrees. I just assumed thats what i should do, as it said so on the back of the pack.

It only goes in the fridge if you're splitting and saving for another day - not if you want an effective starter. I think you may have confused the two.

Advice given to me by John from GG was smack half a day for each month after date of manufacture. Different yeasts will also react differently. Once smacked and puffed, you then put together with some malt and water or wort and agitate at room temp or higher, until you see activity. If you go higher (within reason) it willl happen quicker but you will need to discard the liquid on the top before pitching as it may produce undesirable flavours.

If you buy a liquid and want to get 3 primary brews out of it, you might split a single smack pack into three vessels then refrigerate. When close to brewday, you pull one out, shake regularly and slowly feed with more wort to build up the cells. There are more technical aspects but that's the basics of it. Yeast needs warmth to grow.

The one you placed in the fridge though will be fine - it just needs time out of the fridge and maybe agitaion and feeding (everything clean and sanitary prior). It may just need a bit more time to grow.

 

[losp]

cheers manticle. i have taken it out of the fridge. I guess it will take much more time till i hit the high krausen now. thanks for all your help everyone.

 

[manticle]

Normally too you would build up to 3 litres rather than just add 3 L. Start 1 litre, wait for krausen, add 1 litre etc etc. That's waht people use stir plates for (although can be done without one).

My money is on the yeast working out for you though as long as it was viable to begin with. Normally I make 1 litre starters and just pitch that. Activity always by the next day except on one occasion (lager yeast, possibly underpitched too).

 

[Sammus]

for a full pack i reckon its fine to pitch it straight into 3L, when you do steps to build up, its usually from a very old culture, and even then they recommend stepping up 10x each go. I reckon a full spack pack of yeast would have no problem being pitched into 3L to grow.

anywho, what's this "another smak pack problem..." I've never heard of one smack pack problem, personally I've used packs over 18months old, it takes a bit of coaxing, but they usualy fire up.

also, what kind of yeast is it? I wouldn't be totally opposed to making a starter at 12C if it was a larger yeast, and you were planning to ferment at 12C. In fact, I think some even recommend it, otherwise you have litres of gross sulfery fermeneted starter wort going into your main batch, which would near ruin any lager. If you run the starter warm, make sure you crash chill it for a couple days to floc the yeast out and decant as much of the shit on top off, which contains all the off flavours from fermenting a lager yeast too warm.

 

[losp]

for a full pack i reckon its fine to pitch it straight into 3L, when you do steps to build up, its usually from a very old culture, and even then they recommend stepping up 10x each go. I reckon a full spack pack of yeast would have no problem being pitched into 3L to grow.

anywho, what's this "another smak pack problem..." I've never heard of one smack pack problem, personally I've used packs over 18months old, it takes a bit of coaxing, but they usualy fire up.

also, what kind of yeast is it? I wouldn't be totally opposed to making a starter at 12C if it was a larger yeast, and you were planning to ferment at 12C. In fact, I think some even recommend it, otherwise you have litres of gross sulfery fermeneted starter wort going into your main batch, which would near ruin any lager. If you run the starter warm, make sure you crash chill it for a couple days to floc the yeast out and decant as much of the shit on top off, which contains all the off flavours from fermenting a lager yeast too warm.

I am really confused now!
its a wyeast 2308 munich lager yeast.
This 'another smack pack' stuff was because i read the AHB A/G guide and it said it wasnt a good idea to use a smack pack for your first AG. so i was there thinking, shit... ive gone and done that.

My plan... based on what i had read on the net. was to pitch my yeast into the starter last night. and pitch that into my wort about..... now. but the yeast looks like it hasnt done much.

 

[Sammus]

you won't often see the yeast do a lot in a starter. 3L should show a bit of action though. I see no problems doing that with a lager yeast, pitch the pack straight into 3L of wort then stick it in a 12C fridge and wait for any sign of activity. How longs in been in the fridge? wait at least a couple days.

other people start it warm because its better for yeast multiplying, but as you know lager yeasts dont make great beer warm, so you end up with funkified beer mixed through all the starter, and a few litres in a 20L brew or whatever is a pretty significant amount - so you need to get rid of the funkified beer. Usually this is accomplished by waiting for the started to ferment out completely, then fridge for a while (a few days at least) for the yeast to drop as much out of suspension as possible, then pour as much of the funkified beer off as you dare. It's hard to get rid of it all, last time I did it I tried to get as close as possible to all of it, but since the yeast didnt pack down very hard, i didnt realize I was actually pouring most of the yeast off too...

at any rate, there's always more than one way to do things, just wait till you see some sign of activity.

 

[manticle]

Sammus is right on the money. I assumed it was an ale yeast. Lager yeasts show a lot less activity and are a lot slower. I'd let it come up to ambient temps and just pitch it myself. I can tend to be a bit slack sometimes though.

 

[Screwtop]

got 300gm of light malt extract, mixed with 3L water, boiled for 10 minutes, cooled till around 20, then put the starter in the bottle, gave it a bit of a swirl, then put it in my temp fridge at 12 degrees. That was about 10 hours ago.. just went to check n it then, doesn't look like its had much action. I didn't check the gravity... damn.

You did good! At 100g per 1L it will be about SG 1.040. Just remember for a starter about 20 , if I was building up a big 6L Lager starter I would use 12 degrees as I wouldn't want any esters in the big pitch.

How old was that smack Pack??

for a full pack i reckon its fine to pitch it straight into 3L, when you do steps to build up, its usually from a very old culture, and even then they recommend stepping up 10x each go. I reckon a full spack pack of yeast would have no problem being pitched into 3L to grow.

Good sound advice

Cheers,

Screwy

 

[losp]

Hi guys i tried again. this time with wyeast octoberfeast yeast. i actually waited about 3 days for the thing to puff up as it was made in june and it did. i pitched the yeast yesterday morning. and again it doesnt seem to show much action, cant hear any bubbling. but something may be happening on the top? I attached a photo.
If it is actually doing something. I wonder how long till high krausen.

 

[Fourstar]

i'd say thats kicked off mate, if its nice and cloudy i'd say its fermenting too. You can always check the grav of the starter if you know what the OG was. see if its fermenting out.