Yeast Starters (dry Packet Yeast)

[Diesel80]

Hi all,

as the title suggests I am wondering if there is any benifit to making a yeast starter from dry yeast as opposed to just rehydrating it or pitching more than 1 pack.

I recently brewed a lager type brew and following 3 weeks of lacklustre fermentation and some taste test results from the hydrometer, my research has lead me to believe that my pitch rate was insufficient in the first instance.

I sprinkled in 11.5g of dry yeast for a 21L batch. Though the yeast was a bit past it's best.

Is there any benifit to making a starter with dry yeast?

Would making a starter actually be detrimental to dry yeast? As mentioned here: http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php "Some exciting work has been done on dry yeast lately. Reports are coming in of better quality, cleaner dry yeast. Personally, I really prefer the liquid yeasts, but the lure of dry yeast is strong. The biggest benefit is that it is cheap and does not require a starter. In fact, with most dry yeasts, placing them in a starter would just deplete the reserves that the yeast manufacturer worked so hard to build into the yeast."

I don't have the means to verify the statements made on the mr malty website!

Cheers for the help / advice

Diesel80.

 

[Pennywise]

You're better of just rehydrating it, the amount of cells in a pack of dry yeast is fairly large, so making the size starters we as HB'ers make means it's pretty useless to do so with dry yeast. All you'd be doing is feeding the yeast that's already there, not actually growing any. The starters we make with liquid yeasts are done (partly) because we have very few cells to start with

 

[raven19]

Dont worry about a starter, however from my readings of Jamil's yeast book recently:

I would suggest that it is more important to rehydrate your dried yeast in cooled boiled water prior to pitching. Use a vessel with a larger surface area and let the yeast hydrate before pitching into the wort.

 

[keifer33]

Being a lager most recommend 2 packets of dry yeast and I would just rehydrate as per manufacturers instructions. If using an ale yeast in a normal gravity beer 1 would be fine. Also do your best to get in date packets from a reputable store who have them refrigerated well. If they've had a hard life before you get them your more likely to get below optimal results.

 

[seemax]

http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-1.html

Rehydrating is important.

Additionally slowly add some wort to the slurry (yeast+water) to get it down to your fermentation temp.

Throwing 2 packets straight into the wort could work, but if you're using $10+ of dry yeast you might as well give it the best chance.

 

[davo4772]

Just been listening to Brew Strong. Palmer rehydrates his in a glad bag so it can be given a shake. Will try this next time. When I sprinkle into a glass of warm water it takes ages for the yeast to absorb the water. If I stir too soon then the yeast sticks to the spoon. I want all the rehydrated yeast to go into the fermenter.

 

[Diesel80]

Thank you all for the replies, got some useful information out of them.

Thanks for sharing that tip David, I have the same problem at times.

Cheers,

Diesel80

 

[roo_dr]

You're better of just rehydrating it, the amount of cells in a pack of dry yeast is fairly large, so making the size starters we as HB'ers make means it's pretty useless to do so with dry yeast. All you'd be doing is feeding the yeast that's already there, not actually growing any. The starters we make with liquid yeasts are done (partly) because we have very few cells to start with

A couple of questions (as I've been making starters with my packets of yeast, 100g DME + 1000ml H₂O):

Why would you not be actually growing any yeast with a packet yeast starter?

Would there be any negative effects from making a packet yeast starter (assuming sterile technique throughout)?


I'll change my practice (again) if it's a pointless task.

Kind regards,

 

[Deebo]

A couple of questions (as I've been making starters with my packets of yeast, 100g DME + 1000ml H₂O):

Why would you not be actually growing any yeast with a packet yeast starter?

Would there be any negative effects from making a packet yeast starter (assuming sterile technique throughout)?


I'll change my practice (again) if it's a pointless task.

Kind regards,

My understanding is unless you have an old packet of yeast or pitching into cold wort then there should be enough viable yeast cells not to need to do a starter?

I also seem to recall hearing someplace the 'other stuff' (nutrients maybe?) with the yeast packet get used up if making a starter?

From http://www.mrmalty.com/starter_faq.php

Another case where you generally don't want to make a starter is with dry yeast. It is usually cheaper and easier to just buy more dry yeast than it would be to make a starter large enough for most dry yeast packs. Many experts suggest that placing dry yeasts in a starter would just deplete the reserves that the yeast manufacturer worked so hard to build into their product. For dry yeasts, just do a proper rehydration in tap water, do not make a starter.

 

[roo_dr]

My understanding is unless you have an old packet of yeast or pitching into cold wort then there should be enough viable yeast cells not to need to do a starter?

I also seem to recall hearing someplace the 'other stuff' (nutrients maybe?) with the yeast packet get used up if making a starter?

From http://www.mrmalty.com/starter_faq.php

So what you're saying is... by making a started with a fresh, well cared for packet of dry yeast, and then adding yeast nutrient to the boil to feed the newly started yeasts when pitched, has done nothing more than add expense (and sanitary risk) to my brew day....

There goes that step then!

Rehydration is the key from now on...

 

[DUANNE]

as i understand it due to the large amount of cells in a dry pack a starter is not only unnecasary but culd do more damage than good for the yeast. when they dry the yeast out it has the peak amount of sterols and nutrients and after fermenting in a less than optimum volume of wort these will be expended and not be able to be saved again within the cells. just stick with rehydrating and you should be better off in the long run

 

[seemax]

i'm curious why you would want to make a starter with dry yeast?

23L of 1.050 wort needs approx 180b cells (ale) ... assuming your packet is not too old and kept cool... there's enough yeast

the rehydration gets the yeast into the right mood for chewing sugars

 

[Wolfy]

A couple of questions (as I've been making starters with my packets of yeast, 100g DME + 1000ml H₂O):

Why would you not be actually growing any yeast with a packet yeast starter?

Would there be any negative effects from making a packet yeast starter (assuming sterile technique throughout)?

Yes, dry yeast is packed full of nutrients and oxygen as part of the manufacturing process, so that when they are pitched they are bulked up and ready to go and have all the nutrients and much of the oxygen they need.

If you make a starter they expend all those reserves in the starter and will not be as well 'conditioned' when pitched into your beer.