Yeast starter using 2 different yeasts

[krz]

The last brew I did "Brulosophers Best Blonde Ale" was fantastic, so good its all gone now
I fermented 40 litres using 2 packets of WLP029, and I made a yeast starter with 1 packets and pitched the other packet in pure.

I'm going to do another one of these, but I want to use 1 x WLP029 and 1 x US05.
Why? - Because I have a lot of US05 yeast in the fridge.
Note: I dont want to do 2 x US05 yet, that will brew #3.

The question is:-

1. Should I make 2 yeast starters, 1 out of each type?
2. Just make a yeast starter out of the WLP029 and just rehydrate the US05
3. Something else?

Cheers

 

[bigmunchez]

If you're going with co-pitching both yeasts, I'd probably just rehydrate the 05, and depending on the freshness, make a starter for the 029. However, do you have any option to do a split batch side by side fermentation experiment? You might gain some useful information (or at least have a bit of fun) with some A vs B vs A+B comparisons, or some triangle tests.

 

[krz]

If you're going with co-pitching both yeasts, I'd probably just rehydrate the 05, and depending on the freshness, make a starter for the 029. However, do you have any option to do a split batch side by side fermentation experiment? You might gain some useful information (or at least have a bit of fun) with some A vs B vs A+B comparisons, or some triangle tests.

Not yet. I only have one fermenter.
Yes your right, this is an experiment, but I only want vary 1 variable

 

[Mat]

I'd probably try to aim to have equal cell counts at pitching.

Try to determine the cell count on the us05.
Fermentis spec sheet says a minimum of 6 billion cells per gram. A quick Google search has heaps of reports of closer to 14bil/g and even higher.

Once you settle on a viable cell count for the us05 use a starter calculator and determine the required size starter to bring the wlp029 up to the same cell count.

For whether or not to rehydrate the dry yeast. I'd want to pitch both yeasts in a similar state as not to give either one an advantage.
If you pitch the 029 starter at high krausen I'd rehydrate. If you crash and decant your 029 starter first I'd probably skip the rehydration of the us05.

Keen to know your results though.

Cheers.

 

[krz]

......
Keen to know your results though.

Cheers.

Kegged a few days ago, and drinking now.

FG reached target 1.010, duration 9 days, and for the first time ever I used Gelatin finnings, so a few extra days needed.

Taste is not as good as just WLP029, theres less "honey" like taste, its still there but not as good.
I was going to do a US05 only brew next time but have decided the wlp029 is better for this type of beer so wont do that.
I might try to reuse the wlp029 next time, normally it goes down the sink.

 

[MHB]

Honey is generally regarded as a fault, most commonly associated with yeast, unless that is its a deliberate part of the flavour from say adding honey, some specialty malts or even some yeast strains.
Is the honey flavour a deliberate addition? Or is WLP029 a yeast that throws honey like flavours, being a German Ale I wouldn't have expected so, first thought would have been yeast stress.
Mark

 

[krz]

Honey is generally regarded as a fault, most commonly associated with yeast, unless that is its a deliberate part of the flavour from say adding honey, some specialty malts or even some yeast strains.
Is the honey flavour a deliberate addition? Or is WLP029 a yeast that throws honey like flavours, being a German Ale I wouldn't have expected so, first thought would have been yeast stress.
Mark

Koelsch is supposed to have some honey flavour, it's deliberate.
Its a lovely beer, the previous ferment using all wlp029 was fantastic

 

[Wobbly74]

Seems to be a wlp029 thing - my last 2 kolsch had quite the honey character to them as well, both pitched from active starters with fresh yeast. Just a fairly standard grain bill, 95% pils with just a touch of Vienna and caramalt.

 

[MHB]

Well if you want the honey like flavour why use US-05. It certainly isn't noted for producing the flavour you are looking for.
The Kolsch style beers I have tried have all been made with the Wyeast versions of German Ale and I wouldn't have described them as honey like. A bit of research on the WLP029 says it is good for emphasising Hop character but I couldn't find any mention of Honey, maybe its just a case of looking for a term for the esters typical of Kolsch style beers.
If you are getting what you are looking for from the White Labs yeast, I'd stick with it and put the US-05 in somethin else.
Mind you, a good Kolsch is an absolute cracker of a beer, if you have a recipe that is working for you, you'd have to be a happy brewer.
Mark

 

[krz]

Well if you want the honey like flavour why use US-05..........

Look at first post. "Why? - Because I have a lot of US05 yeast in the fridge."

 

[Mat]

Kegged a few days ago, and drinking now.

FG reached target 1.010, duration 9 days, and for the first time ever I used Gelatin finnings, so a few extra days needed.

Taste is not as good as just WLP029, theres less "honey" like taste, its still there but not as good.
I was going to do a US05 only brew next time but have decided the wlp029 is better for this type of beer so wont do that.
I might try to reuse the wlp029 next time, normally it goes down the sink.

Fair enough, at least now you know wlp029 is the way to go.

What did you end up doing in regards to the starters/pitching?

 

[krz]

Fair enough, at least now you know wlp029 is the way to go.

What did you end up doing in regards to the starters/pitching?

Ended up rehydrating the yeast and pitching at same time as starter. Seemed to work ok.