Yeast Starter For Dried Yeast

[milestron]

Hey all - I've been doing some research on making a yeast starter (liquid yeast is one of the things next on my list to move up to). For the moment I've still got quite a few packets of dried yeast from my last Craftbrewer order.

I understand that liquid yeast requires a yeast starter because typically the number of yeast cells is not high enough for a full brew as-is. Is there any benefit to making a starter for dry yeast? or is it the extra effort just not required given dry yeast is good to go straight away. I figure that I usually rehydrate the yeast first anyway so it's not too much of a stretch to make a starter a few days ahead of time (if there's any point to it). I already have some yeast nutrient anyway from an alco lemonade I made a little while back so that's no problem, and malt extract obviously I'll always have a bit extra kicking around.

Cheers

 

[MarkBastard]

Pretty sure dry yeast contains nutrients such that you don't need to make a starter as long as you have enough yeast to pitch. Just rehydrate it.

 

[Dazza_devil]

I'm pretty sure that liquid yeast smack-packs are designed for pitching straight into a full batch as is. Bigger beers and lagers may require a starter to be built up.
I think the main reason a lot of people build starters from the smack-pack is so they can split it up for future brews.
Dried yeast are also designed for pitching straight into your wort as far as I know. The reserves they contain are best used up in the main batch as opposed to a starter, according to many. Just use the appropriate number of packets as needed for the particular brew or build up a starter. Others more experienced will be able to give more conclusive information.

 

[manticle]

Hey all - I've been doing some research on making a yeast starter (liquid yeast is one of the things next on my list to move up to). For the moment I've still got quite a few packets of dried yeast from my last Craftbrewer order.

I understand that liquid yeast requires a yeast starter because typically the number of yeast cells is not high enough for a full brew as-is. Is there any benefit to making a starter for dry yeast? or is it the extra effort just not required given dry yeast is good to go straight away. I figure that I usually rehydrate the yeast first anyway so it's not too much of a stretch to make a starter a few days ahead of time (if there's any point to it). I already have some yeast nutrient anyway from an alco lemonade I made a little while back so that's no problem, and malt extract obviously I'll always have a bit extra kicking around.

Cheers

Liquid yeast doesn't require a starter if it's average gravity wort, fresh yeast and an activator pack. Propogator packs and slants/slopes/vials do. The main reason for making a starter with an activator pack in average grav wort is to check viability and to have active yeast added to fermenter.

With dried yeast it's generally considered unnecessary. The only situation in which I would make an active starter with dried yeast is if I had a stalled ferment and need to re-pitch. Sprinkling straight in might do absolutely nothing.

 

[CDJ]

As said before, no need to make a starter with dry yeast. Rehydrate dry yeast to reduce the activation time lag once sprinkled over the wort.

 

[milestron]

sweet as guys cheers - the vote goes for no starter (unless beer is stalled)

 

[Matplat]

Afternoon everyone,

Reviving an old thread rather than starting a new one...

Normally I wouldn't bother asking the question, but can't quite work out a conclusive answer myself.

I got a packet of MJ Burton Union for an english ale, but then decided to up the batch volume to 28l. Just wondering if I should make a starter to increase my pitched cell count or if the underpitch will be ok?

OG is 1.044.... Mr Malty says 1.2 packs of 11.5g sachets and MJ yeasts are only 10g packs.

I was thinking of making a starter but most posts I've read say not to bother (as per above), pitching the sachet into a litre of starter can't hurt surely? Would it even increase the cell count considering it would be such an overpitch?

Any clarity would be much appreciated....

Matt

 

[kaiserben]

Risking another sprinkle vs rehydrate debate here, but here goes ...

With the dried yeast starter idea: Because dried yeast is optimised for rehydrating in lukewarm water, the sugars in your starter wort would overwhelm and kill a proportion of (not all, a proportion of) the dried yeast, thus initially reducing your cell count and thus defeating the purpose of what you're trying to achieve. AFAIK you can avoid the yeast death by rehydrating (which is why rehydrating is best practice and better than sprinkling h34r: ).

So therefore you could rehydrate first, then pitch that into a starter and let it do it's thing for a few days before pitching into the main wort and that'd achieve what you're thinking. But why create all this extra work for yourself when dried yeast costs $5 a pack? I'd just pitch 2 packs, or 1.5 packs (you could even sprinkle 2 packs taking into account a proportion of the yeast will die happy in sugary graves).

 

[Matplat]

Yep definitely not wanting to re-hash same old same olds...

Just don't want to make another trip to the HBS, plus you don't see any benefit in the amount of yeast you can harvest at the end.

I guess I was just put off by the number of comments saying not to make a starter with dried yeast. I'll roll the dice and make my starter tonight...

To confirm though, if I used the single pack as is, underpitching by that much would be likely to produce substandard beer?

 

[mtb]

I wouldn't say substandard beer - rather it'll extend fermentation time / time taken to reach high krausen due to the time needed for yeast to reproduce before getting busy

 

[Matplat]

Don't the yeast produce some undesirable compounds during their growth phase that don't condition out? I thought consequences of underpitching were worse than just time taken/stalling? I guess I need to read that bit on howtobrew again. I've got the starter cracking along now anyway, it has reached high krausen but I will wait until it all flocculates so I can get rid of the starter beer

 

[manticle]

Rehydrating and pitching into a starter would be fine. Using 2 packs would also work.

 

[wobbly]

Just remember that where as with dry yeast direct pitched (or re-hydrated) into the wort it isn't "necessary" to Oxygenate your wort but seeing you have made a starter the yeast will have used up is store of "what ever" and it will now be necessary to Oxygenate your wort prior to pitching just as you would when reusing a yeast post fermentation

Wobbly

 

[Rocker1986]

I make starters with dry yeast, mainly for the purpose of harvesting a portion for re-use later. I always re-hydrate before pitching the fresh pack into the starter. Sure, it's not a huge cost saving, but it saves making trips to the brew shop every fortnight, faffing about rinsing from trub, or buying heaps of packets of yeast at a time. Haven't had any problems from it, so I see no reason to change. I'm currently boiling a starter for some harvested US-05 which is up to its 6th or 7th generation now I think. Still performing well, but I'm interested to see how long it takes before it starts going a bit funny.

 

[kaiserben]

To confirm though, if I used the single pack as is, underpitching by that much would be likely to produce substandard beer?

Depending on your viable cell count it might lead to substandard/sluggish/stuck ferment and unwanted esters in your beer.

Yeastcalculator dot com suggests that 28L of ale at 1.044 would require a pitch of 230bn cells (so a single pack of dried yeast with production date of only 1 week ago, rehydrated, would be fine as is).

Dunno when your yeast pack was produced, but a pack of yeast produced a month ago would be down to ~190bn viable cells. It's debatable, but some would consider that good enough in your case (my thoughts are that it's definitely not best-practice and I'd rather over than under-pitch). Alternatively, putting that 190bn cells in a 0.5L starter - rehydrated - and on a stir plate - would get you back up over 230bn. 0.8L starter with intermittent shaking will also get you there.

 

[Matplat]

Thanks gents, the pack was good until 06/2017 but no idea of manufacture date... i rehydrated then pitched into 1.3l of wort, with intermittent shaking. I reckon i should have a safe yeast count by the time its done....

I think I need to do some back to back testing with pitching rates to really learn the effect and how significant it is on flavour. I think it's pretty much the hardest variable to control as home brewers (without buying a fresh pack each time).

 

[wobbly]

Have a read of this topic and towards the end of the article you will see viability details depending on the temperature that yeast was stored at

https://koehlerbeer.wordpress.com/2008/06/07/rehydrating-dry-yeast-with-dr-clayton-cone/

Wobbly

 

[kaiserben]

2 years back from use by date is the manufacture date (if my memory serves). It looks like you'll be fine.

 

[Yob]

Dry yeast is said ( properly stored) to lose %10 viability a year.. Less if freezer stored