Wyeast Beginners Question

[ishin]

Hi....I'm "trying" to do a Bavarian lager...my question is related to the use of Wyeast 2206...

The pack is dated 02/07 (so 4 months old) and has been kept in the fridge (unopened).

Used an ESB Bavarian Lager Kit...dissolved contents into 2l boiling water in the fermenter and topped up to 22l.

3hrs earlier I took the Wyeast out of the fridge....smacked it and brought it to room temperature....didn't swell (much or at all)...now given that my mixture was ready, I got really confused and took the plunge and pitched it..temp was about 20 and cooling fast (It was a very cold day).

40hrs later...nothing....temp in wort is about 13 (maintained by heater) and it doesn't go up much....someone said that I should allow 1/2 day per month the yeast is packaged..does this mean it may take (based on the above date of 02/07) up to 2 days to actually start working??

Now this is where I am confused....the instructions on the Wyeast pack say 3 hrs or pitch immediately....does this mean that I should have waited 3hrs and then pitched OR until the pack had swollen (In which case..how do I know when to create my wort?? if it takes 40 hrs to swell..or 2 days as above) OR just pitched it immediately (without waiting at all).

My additional question is.."What Temp should I have pitched the Wyeast at??"..given that I am maintaining it now at about 13...should I increase the temp to get it activated and then decrease down to 13 again??

 

[Trent]

Ishin
Generally, lagers take alot more yeast to get going than ales do. I thikn that you will find that you have underpitched, DESPITE it saying that it is sufficient for a 23L batch. Basically, in order to give your beer the best chance next time, a few days before you plan on brewing, take your pack out and smack it, and wait till it has started to swell significantly (keep in near the VCR or somewhere else that is reasonably warm). Make yourself up about a 2L starter, and pitch the yeast in there. Then you can either ferment it warm-ish (18-22C or so), allow it to ferment out, put it in the fridge for a day or 2, decasnt most of the spent starter off the top, and just pitch the slurry, OR, ferment the starter at about 12C, and pitch it when it is fermenting happily away, but make sure the wort it is going into is about the same temp. the easist way to do this will be use cold water (fill a gerry can a few days before, and sit it in the fridge) to fill up your fermenter.
Oh yeah, and whgen they say 1/2 day per month, they mean that is about how long it will take for the pack to swell. When you are kit brewing especially, it takes alot less time, and so you should plan your brewing around when the yeast is ready. Liquid yeast also requires alot of aeration to reproduce and build up enough numbers to ferment, so maybe next time splash the wort around as much as possible to get alot of O2 dissolved in your wort. You can always just pitch the contents of the pack in once it has swollen, but you will not (may not) get the same results as you will by making a starter.
HTH
T

 

[Trent]

Oh yeah
And if your sanitation was up to scratch, the yeast may eventually come good and ferment your beer. If it wasnt, you will find the long lag time will be an oppurtunity for bugs to get in. I am sure it will come good, just leave it at 13C and be patient.
All the best
Trent

 

[chris.taylor.98]

Now this is where I am confused....the instructions on the Wyeast pack say 3 hrs or pitch immediately....does this mean that I should have waited 3hrs and then pitched OR until the pack had swollen (In which case..how do I know when to create my wort?? if it takes 40 hrs to swell..or 2 days as above) OR just pitched it immediately (without waiting at all).

My additional question is.."What Temp should I have pitched the Wyeast at??"..given that I am maintaining it now at about 13...should I increase the temp to get it activated and then decrease down to 13 again??

You can pitch the yeast with out waiting for it to swell. The swelling just shows you it is viable, healthy yeast. You usually need to pop the nutrient pack inside to get the pack to swell ( and it is usually a bit of a bugger to do it ). Don't get too worried about it, just take the smack pack out on brewday and pop the nutrient pack inside. Even if you forget it is no big deal.

Lager yeasts take a lot longer to get going then ale yeast, but it should still start within 48 hrs, otherwise I would be suspect about the viability of the yeast.

Other things that you need to consider when pitching yeast are:

i) Does it have enough oxygen in the wort? ( you should at least try and stir it vigoursly to get some oxygen in the wort before pitching, or use an aeration stone etc )

ii) Have you pitched enough yeast? ( you need double what you pitch for ales, and one smack pack is really not enough no matter what wyeast try and tell you ).

13 C should be ok for that strain of yeast. There is a lot of contention about pitch cold vs pitching warm. Cold pitching is probably better for the beer, but won't make a huge difference if you cool it down in the first 24hrs or so.

I strongly recommend that you keep on hand a pack of saf-lager ( the dried yeast ) as a plan b, if you are pitching with out first doing a starter.

 

[///]

You can pitch the yeast with out waiting for it to swell.

I'd only do this is the pack is fresh off the boat.

Standard practice is to wait for the packs to swell, this is the starter for packs. Being 4 months old, even refrigerated, the viability does drop. Hence the design of the package, for any age pack by smaking the nutrient pack the remaining yeast will populate to the required numbers for a healthy ferment.

For the failure, yeast are a beast that have strength in numbers, if you under pitch and there are not enough numbers the yeast can get spooked and turn up their toes.

Scotty

 

[bayWeiss]

...for any age pack by smaking the nutrient pack the remaining yeast will populate to the required numbers for a healthy ferment.
...

Scotty

I do not think this is true. It is my understanding that the pack is nutrient only, and there is no reproduction that goes on because of it, just anaerobic metabolism.

The ratio of yeast-to-nutrient is so large, they go into the fermentation phase immediately. The smack packs purpose is to prove that the yeast are alive (by looking at the visible swelling), and the added nutrients are helpful when dumped into the wort.

This was my understanding of the pack.

:beer:

 

[///]

I do not think this is true. It is my understanding that the pack is nutrient only, and there is no reproduction that goes on because of it, just anaerobic metabolism.

The ratio of yeast-to-nutrient is so large, they go into the fermentation phase immediately. The smack packs purpose is to prove that the yeast are alive (by looking at the visible swelling), and the added nutrients are helpful when dumped into the wort.

This was my understanding of the pack.

:beer:

I stand corrected!

Scotty

 

[ishin]

Hi....Beer has started to ferment....but I had to turn the temp up to about 22 to get it started.....regular bubbles about 40secs apart...problem is that when I turn the temp down again to below 20 it stops...the yeast is meant to work 9 -13..so whats the problem?

 

[leeboy]

A few things need to be considered.
1) what type of fermenting vessel are you using- if it is a plastic one, they often can not seal perfectly thus airlock bubbles aren't a good way to determine if fermentation is occuring. Look for a layer of froth (crouzen???) on the top. If you are using a glass fermenter, the plug style seal should seal every time. This is my fav fermentation vessel
2) How accurate is your temperature mesuring device. If it is the plastic thermometer on the side, apparently if these ever get to 40c they loose all reliability and can be up to 8 degrees out of range.

And for further comment
I always make a starter culture of my wyeast to ensure fermentation starts rapidly and that way I can rack of the primary yeast within about 4 days.
Hope this helps and this is just my experience with wyeast/brewing
Cheers
Lee

 

[DJR]

What you are probably finding is that as you heat up the wort in the fermenter the CO2 is escaping - since CO2 is less soluble at higher temps. So raise the temp, you get bubbles. Lower it, nothing. That's because the wort is now able to absorb more CO2.

If you are going to pitch a lager yeast into a lager wort from a single White labs or Wyeast packet, what is recommended is to pitch at ale temps (18-23C), then once fermentation signs are evident (raised airlock, wispy foam on top of the wort), lower the temp by 10C over 12 hours.

 

[Back Yard Brewer]

Having worked with yeast on large scales IMHO I would wait in future for the pack to swell. This way when you pitch it the yeast will have a beeter start in life. The better the yeast count the stronger the activation.The quicker the wort will kick in the less chance of infection. Basically in your case a little trial and error the first time round.
IMHO that is.

Cheers BYB