Wyeast 1028 London Ale
- Thread starter BenH
- Start date
Help Support Australia & New Zealand Homebrewing Forum:
Trent
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 16/6/04
- Messages
- 1,258
- Reaction score
- 2
Ben
I have used 1028 quite alot, and I have found that if the yeast is stressed, it can lend a funny yeast flavour, but its quite crisp (maybe a touch minerally) usually. Are you using a first generation sample, or is it one you have taken out of a bottle of beer someone else has given you? Do you make a starter first up, and aerate well? Sometimes when it is re-pitched when it isnt in optimal condition can make it taste a little funny. When you say it is difficult to clear, do you mean the yeasty flavour, or the actual yeast arent flocculating? If you have been saving yeast from secondary rather than primary, you may be saving the poorest flocculators. It is difficult to say what you are doing "wrong" without knowing a little more about the way you use it, but in my experience, it is a yeast that not everyone is going to like, and your palate may just be a little sensitive to this particular yeast. I quite like this yeast, though it took me a few brews to take to it. If you aren't into it, try another of the English style yeasts, there are plenty on the market. Why not try em all, and stick with your fave when you find it. thats what I am trying to do, it's just taking me years to get through em!
All the best
Trent
I have used 1028 quite alot, and I have found that if the yeast is stressed, it can lend a funny yeast flavour, but its quite crisp (maybe a touch minerally) usually. Are you using a first generation sample, or is it one you have taken out of a bottle of beer someone else has given you? Do you make a starter first up, and aerate well? Sometimes when it is re-pitched when it isnt in optimal condition can make it taste a little funny. When you say it is difficult to clear, do you mean the yeasty flavour, or the actual yeast arent flocculating? If you have been saving yeast from secondary rather than primary, you may be saving the poorest flocculators. It is difficult to say what you are doing "wrong" without knowing a little more about the way you use it, but in my experience, it is a yeast that not everyone is going to like, and your palate may just be a little sensitive to this particular yeast. I quite like this yeast, though it took me a few brews to take to it. If you aren't into it, try another of the English style yeasts, there are plenty on the market. Why not try em all, and stick with your fave when you find it. thats what I am trying to do, it's just taking me years to get through em!
All the best
Trent
Yeah, sorry Trent, I didn't give much detail to begin with 
I split my first starter (from an activator pack), keeping one half as generation "1", and re-built the rest in another starter and pitched to a brew. I then collected from primary, and water-washed, giving me generation "2".
So I've now used 1st and 2nd generation, and they seem to be behaving the same. It's as if they're not flocculating.
My schedule is as follows:
Primary - 7 days (14 deg)
Secondary - 7 days (14 deg)
Conditioning - 14 days (4 deg)
Then into keg, carbonate and serve. :beer:
I would have thought the cold conditioning would drop the yeast out, but doesn't seem to have. I don't use any finings.
I wouldn't call it an off flavour - I actually don't mind it - it's just that the yeast dominates the taste, and others describe the brew as 'yeasty'.
I split my first starter (from an activator pack), keeping one half as generation "1", and re-built the rest in another starter and pitched to a brew. I then collected from primary, and water-washed, giving me generation "2".
So I've now used 1st and 2nd generation, and they seem to be behaving the same. It's as if they're not flocculating.
My schedule is as follows:
Primary - 7 days (14 deg)
Secondary - 7 days (14 deg)
Conditioning - 14 days (4 deg)
Then into keg, carbonate and serve. :beer:
I would have thought the cold conditioning would drop the yeast out, but doesn't seem to have. I don't use any finings.
I wouldn't call it an off flavour - I actually don't mind it - it's just that the yeast dominates the taste, and others describe the brew as 'yeasty'.
Trent
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 16/6/04
- Messages
- 1,258
- Reaction score
- 2
Ben
I will go out on a limb, and say that 14C for primary is just a bit too cold. That kinda temp COULD put the yeast under more stress than it would be at 18C. Wyeast says it can ferment down to 15C, but I just wouldnt go that far down. next time you use it, try fermenting a little bit warmer, it will bring out some esters more, and maybe hide that yeasty flavour. As far as the beer being really cloudy, the CC SHOULD drop all the yeast out, as well as proteins, but are you making kits, or boiling extract/AG? if you are boiling, are you getting a good hot break, acheiving a good, strong rolling boil, and chilling well (though whether chilling/cold break can help reduce haze is up for argument, and one I am not going into! I have seen plenty of "no chill" beers crystal clear). If you are mashing, are you recirculating enough, to prevent raw starch entering the boil? And what kind of base malt are you using? I know that Maris Otter has its own "anti cold serve" alarm, in the form of a solid chill haze that it throws below about 10C. I always try and serve my english beers at 10-13C. Maybe try leaving a half a glass out at room temp for half an hour, and see if the haze clears as it warms.
Anyway, I would just say that next brew, brew it warmer, then continue on with your secondary and CC as you have been, and if you STILL find it a problem, then write to Wyeast themselves, and detail what you have been doing, and what problems you have been having. It is POSSIBLE (though doubtful) that you have gotten a dodgy pack, and/or they may have some suggestions as to why you are finding a funky flavour in a first gen sample
All the best
Trent
I will go out on a limb, and say that 14C for primary is just a bit too cold. That kinda temp COULD put the yeast under more stress than it would be at 18C. Wyeast says it can ferment down to 15C, but I just wouldnt go that far down. next time you use it, try fermenting a little bit warmer, it will bring out some esters more, and maybe hide that yeasty flavour. As far as the beer being really cloudy, the CC SHOULD drop all the yeast out, as well as proteins, but are you making kits, or boiling extract/AG? if you are boiling, are you getting a good hot break, acheiving a good, strong rolling boil, and chilling well (though whether chilling/cold break can help reduce haze is up for argument, and one I am not going into! I have seen plenty of "no chill" beers crystal clear). If you are mashing, are you recirculating enough, to prevent raw starch entering the boil? And what kind of base malt are you using? I know that Maris Otter has its own "anti cold serve" alarm, in the form of a solid chill haze that it throws below about 10C. I always try and serve my english beers at 10-13C. Maybe try leaving a half a glass out at room temp for half an hour, and see if the haze clears as it warms.
Anyway, I would just say that next brew, brew it warmer, then continue on with your secondary and CC as you have been, and if you STILL find it a problem, then write to Wyeast themselves, and detail what you have been doing, and what problems you have been having. It is POSSIBLE (though doubtful) that you have gotten a dodgy pack, and/or they may have some suggestions as to why you are finding a funky flavour in a first gen sample
All the best
Trent
///
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 5/9/04
- Messages
- 4,411
- Reaction score
- 223
As wonderful as the profile is of the yeast, and I use it commercially, it is a crap floc'er!
It behaves poorly compared to 1099 or Ringwood for eg, sometimes it just wont move. Interestingly, it kills the ferment, so much so that Tim at the Five Islands had to adjust the pads on his fermenter once as he walked in one day to see his 2400l fermenter rocking due to the veracity of the ferment. And I once did a 1.120 barley wine to 1.012 in 3 days - it handles high alc's very well.
This yeast usually responds to cold conditioning well, but not like the true top croppers. A bit like a lager yeast if we dare to insult it.
Filter it, chill it or just wait, it will fall. <edit> just reading Trents note, as a Wyeast importer just drop us a line if you have serious issue!
Scotty
It behaves poorly compared to 1099 or Ringwood for eg, sometimes it just wont move. Interestingly, it kills the ferment, so much so that Tim at the Five Islands had to adjust the pads on his fermenter once as he walked in one day to see his 2400l fermenter rocking due to the veracity of the ferment. And I once did a 1.120 barley wine to 1.012 in 3 days - it handles high alc's very well.
This yeast usually responds to cold conditioning well, but not like the true top croppers. A bit like a lager yeast if we dare to insult it.
Filter it, chill it or just wait, it will fall. <edit> just reading Trents note, as a Wyeast importer just drop us a line if you have serious issue!
Scotty
Weizguy
Barley Bomber
G'day Crew,
My 2cents worth is that the yeast appears stressed. Sounds like something I did to a W1968. It took a long time to clear even tho it's a good flocculator. I must have stressed it. Got this nastl yeasty flavour in my Londoon Pride clone. Trent might be able to tell if the yeastiness is gone, as I gave him a sample a few weeks back.
Anyhow, I really like the London Ale yeast and have made some very enjoyable pale ales with it. Hell, I even used the yeast for bottle conditioning my 3rd place Nationals Strong ale (13.7%).
I really appreciate the mineral and fruity flavours from this yeast. Mmmm, yumm!
Check your yeast health on the next batch, and best o' luck.
Beerz
Seth
(* pedantic spelling edit X 2 *)
My 2cents worth is that the yeast appears stressed. Sounds like something I did to a W1968. It took a long time to clear even tho it's a good flocculator. I must have stressed it. Got this nastl yeasty flavour in my Londoon Pride clone. Trent might be able to tell if the yeastiness is gone, as I gave him a sample a few weeks back.
Anyhow, I really like the London Ale yeast and have made some very enjoyable pale ales with it. Hell, I even used the yeast for bottle conditioning my 3rd place Nationals Strong ale (13.7%).
I really appreciate the mineral and fruity flavours from this yeast. Mmmm, yumm!
Check your yeast health on the next batch, and best o' luck.
Beerz
Seth
(* pedantic spelling edit X 2 *)
Thanks for the comments guys. I'm doing AG, and always do a starch test before lautering. The haze doesn't seem affected by the temp, so I was pretty sure it was suspended yeast. The brews are all using JW Trad Pale as the base, mashed at 68 deg (brew 1) and 66 deg (brew 2).
Don't get me wrong - I really love the way these brews are tasting, it's just that it's way more yeasty that I was expecting.
Trent - sorry, 14 deg isn't right, that's what I set my thermostat at (air temp more like 15 deg as it's a dial thermostat and not that accurate!), but the actual wort temp during ferment (stick on thermometer) is between 16-18 deg depending on visciousness of ferment.
Seth, what do you mean "check your yeast health", and how does one go about doing it?
Thanks again,
BenH.
Don't get me wrong - I really love the way these brews are tasting, it's just that it's way more yeasty that I was expecting.
Trent - sorry, 14 deg isn't right, that's what I set my thermostat at (air temp more like 15 deg as it's a dial thermostat and not that accurate!), but the actual wort temp during ferment (stick on thermometer) is between 16-18 deg depending on visciousness of ferment.
Check your yeast health on the next batch, and best o' luck.
Beerz
Seth
Seth, what do you mean "check your yeast health", and how does one go about doing it?
Thanks again,
BenH.
Weizguy
Barley Bomber
Ben,
When I say "check your yeast health", I just ask U to ensure that you pitch the yeast culture while it's still working well (not after it's gone to sleep). Make sure that the culture looks good and is performing well b4 pitching. Frankly, if your yeast culture is fermenting quickly and getting through the malt (not leaving too much residual sweetness), and the yeast culture tastes OK (with desired characteristics), it should do the job you want.
Also, pls monitor the ferment progress and rack at the right stage (not too early, and don't leave the beer on the yeast too long.)
I have not had a problem with W1028, but have with W1968. Maybe it was an issue from the initial culture?
Anyway, don't give up on W1028 as it's a great yeast and produces flavas that I like, but maybe doesn't suit everyone.
Seth
When I say "check your yeast health", I just ask U to ensure that you pitch the yeast culture while it's still working well (not after it's gone to sleep). Make sure that the culture looks good and is performing well b4 pitching. Frankly, if your yeast culture is fermenting quickly and getting through the malt (not leaving too much residual sweetness), and the yeast culture tastes OK (with desired characteristics), it should do the job you want.
Also, pls monitor the ferment progress and rack at the right stage (not too early, and don't leave the beer on the yeast too long.)
I have not had a problem with W1028, but have with W1968. Maybe it was an issue from the initial culture?
Anyway, don't give up on W1028 as it's a great yeast and produces flavas that I like, but maybe doesn't suit everyone.
Seth
