Wort Started Fermenting In Cube ?

[Hutcho]

Hi,
Last week i brewed 2 batches of Coopers Sparkling Ale clone, the first batch of 23 litres was a bit light on in the Alc % with an OG of 1.036 so for the next run I upped the grain bill from 4.5kg to 7.2kg and got this batch out at 1.052(its BIAB), both then went into cubes for no chill storage.
Anyway today my fermenter became available so grabbed the two cubes but the 2nd cube was swollen up like it was going to burst so i let some air out and it didn't smell the best.
So i decided to pour some off into a glass to smell and check and there was a distinct layer of foam in the cube and when i poured it into the glass it produced a head and you could see carbonation in it, measured the SG and it was at 1.046, so had dropped 0.006 points.
Would you say some wild yeast has got into this wort and started fermenting it already, thats my guess, and next thing is would you say its infected/ruined i.e no point in pitching a new yeast on it and seeing how it turns out ? I tasted it and its not totally rank but is different to the batch which appears normal.
All cubes were washed out as usual, napisan, no rinse coppertun and transfer was done quickly and sealed up asap with the air squeezed out.

Any comments/suggestions appreciated


Hutcho

 

[Greg.L]

This is why I don't get this cube thing, it's very hard to keep all bugs out but if you pitch as soon as the wort cools then no worries. I would pitch yeast as per normal, it's probly fine. Most ferments would get a little wild yeast at some stage, they are very hard to exclude completely.

 

[NickB]

Have only ever had 2 cubes with this problem in around 4 odd years of no-chilling.

Yes, I'd say your cube had a leak of some sort allowing either wild yeast or another bacteria in. And yes, chuck it. Unless you want to ferment it out and see what it tastes like, but from my one and only time doing this, it was a wast of time and a perfectly good fermenter.....

What I've found with my cubes is that if I over-tighten, they can leak a little. I just tighten enough to stop any air escaping, and I've had no problems since. The only other issue I've ever had (and only once) was with a cube that sat around for a year (hidden very well, might I add!). It wasn't great, but that could really be due to the fact that HDPE lets in a small amount of air over a long period like this. If you're fermenting and pitching within say 6 months or less, you should have no issues.

Cheers

 

[rotten]

I tried to save a few brews that did the same in the cube. My advice, ditch it, and toss the cube. Sorry mate, but it won't ever be drinkable, even if you let it age. My problem I beleive was a dirty tap on the kettle, and not quite adequete sanitation. Have since bought a plate chiller, and upgraded sanitation. Time will tell how that goes.
Good luck.
Cheers :icon_cheers:

 

[cynical]

Must be those heat-resistant bugs living in the tap of the boiler.
cy

 

[Bada Bing Brewery]

How are you cleaning your cubes? I now use napisan, warm water and soak then good rinse,dry storage and starsan before cubing. Had one infection before starting this cleaning regime - none since. Toss the infected cube....
Cheers
BBB

 

[Ross]

This is why I don't get this cube thing, it's very hard to keep all bugs out but if you pitch as soon as the wort cools then no worries. I would pitch yeast as per normal, it's probly fine. Most ferments would get a little wild yeast at some stage, they are very hard to exclude completely.

Sorry, but advising to pitch a yeast & saying it's probably fine is just bad advice - The beer is infected & has started fermenting, save your yeast & chuck it.

Ross

 

[Tony]

Mmmmmmmm where is Darren???

Its infected..... as ross said!

Tip it out!

 

[barls]

welcome to the world of spontaneously fermented beers. not saying all are good but some can be. have a taste if it tastes reasonable pitch some yeast. up to you on this one. only ever had 1 swell on me in 4 years of nc, its now 12 months down the track and its tasting wonderful and very promising.
cheers barls

 

[Hutcho]

Ok, beer has been tipped, so lucky to have the other half saved so not a complete waste but 25 litres down the drain
Am in the process of upgrading and will be going back to chilling and pitching with the new setup.

Thanks for the replies.

Hutcho

 

[brettprevans]

God there is a ******** being touted in this thread. I've had 2 cubes ferment on my. 1 chill (which is the riskiest way of cubing) and 1 no chill. Both perfectly drinkable.

1. No chill - if ur wort is freaking hot then contact with ant bacteria should kill it. High heat (over 100C kills bacteria). Still best to refrigerate ur cubes
2. Just because ur cube got an infection dirsnt mean ut can't be salvaged. Plenty if us brew funk beers and clean the crap out if fermentors and they r fine. U just need to be fastidious about tge cleaning regime.
3. Not all infections will give bad flavours. Certain bugs like lacto etc will, but if it's only just started and u can get a more powerful stronger yeast in there, then it will be fine. I'm talking about yeast slurry etc, not a pack of dry yeast straigt out of the pack. It won't grow enough in time to overcome the infection.

Not all spinranious ferments ate bad. It could be wild yeast or an infection (bad). Or if your like me and have multiple grains floating round yeats etc everywhere it could be fine. Now if it tastes bad it's prob an infection and u can tip it. I've had a bad infection before but it started during tge last few days of ferment. I saved tge veer, left a few kitted with tge infection on top and it was fine. But I tasted it and it was good and I was careful. Bit of experience goes a long way which you'll develop in time

The rest of u pipe down if u don't know ur arse from your elbow (Ross and barls excluded, they r a great source of knowledge)

 

[NickB]

Wow, had a few today CM2? A few of us have experienced this problem first hand, and advised what WE did to remedy it or why we chucked the batch. I never said spontaneously beers were ALWAYS bad. Funky beers can be good, but if you're not familiar with them, you may disagree.

Settle Petal.

 

[beerdrinkingbob]

A fellow brewer on this site got an infected oatmeal stout cube not that long back, when i went over to his place, it looked like it was about to explode all over the shed... Anyway he fermented it and although it was NQR it still wasn't a bad drop. I guess the biggest worry is if that it then hangs around in the fermenter and then infects another batch :icon_vomit:

I think you did the right thing, might be worth throwing out the cube or use it for something else :angry:

 

[Hutcho]

yep cube is being recycled into something else, it expanded so much that it stretched the plastic along one of the seams !!

 

[brettprevans]

Wow, had a few today CM2? A few of us have experienced this problem first hand, and advised what WE did to remedy it or why we chucked the batch. I never said spontaneously beers were ALWAYS bad. Funky beers can be good, but if you're not familiar with them, you may disagree.

Settle Petal.

Not a drop to drink, as I'm on heavy pain killers (motorbike accident).

By the time I posted, more people had posted. I cbf editing the post to excl everyone who made a reasonable suggesting nick.

All good over in my neck of the woods.

Edit: actually nick I've just read ur post, I seem to have missed that one. Fair comments.

 

[rotten]

God there is a ******** being touted in this thread. I've had 2 cubes ferment on my. 1 chill (which is the riskiest way of cubing) and 1 no chill. Both perfectly drinkable.

1. No chill - if ur wort is freaking hot then contact with ant bacteria should kill it. High heat (over 100C kills bacteria). Still best to refrigerate ur cubes
2. Just because ur cube got an infection dirsnt mean ut can't be salvaged. Plenty if us brew funk beers and clean the crap out if fermentors and they r fine. U just need to be fastidious about tge cleaning regime.
3. Not all infections will give bad flavours. Certain bugs like lacto etc will, but if it's only just started and u can get a more powerful stronger yeast in there, then it will be fine. I'm talking about yeast slurry etc, not a pack of dry yeast straigt out of the pack. It won't grow enough in time to overcome the infection.

Not all spinranious ferments ate bad. It could be wild yeast or an infection (bad). Or if your like me and have multiple grains floating round yeats etc everywhere it could be fine. Now if it tastes bad it's prob an infection and u can tip it. I've had a bad infection before but it started during tge last few days of ferment. I saved tge veer, left a few kitted with tge infection on top and it was fine. But I tasted it and it was good and I was careful. Bit of experience goes a long way which you'll develop in time

The rest of u pipe down if u don't know ur arse from your elbow (Ross and barls excluded, they r a great source of knowledge)

WTF mate
I tried everything I could to ressurrect my infected cubes, pitched a VERY healthy yeast, chilled for weeks, used finings, aged for a few months sampling every few weeks. Guess what? still stuffed.

Just put in my opinion based on my experience.

 

[Phoney]

I've had this happen once..

Although I wonder; What would happen if you caught the infection fairly early on in the piece and poured the wort back into the kettle, and boiled it for another 5 - 10 mins? Would that kill off the infection and leave you with a relatively unscathed wort?

 

[humulus]

Mate had the same problem,had to chuck 20l of irish red down the dunny!!!! i think mine was a lid that just sucked a little bit of air when the cube cooled!!
Throw it!!!! if its swollen in the cube the nasties have already made a home!!!!!!

 

[Greg.L]

Seems from the responses to this thread that infected cubes is a common problem, I don't know why people bother.

The basic fact is that EVERY batch of beer will pick up an infection, but the yeast you pitch will always dominate and overwhelm every other yeast. It isn't possible to keep your beer a pure culture, there will always be other bugs in there. If the infection is allowed to take off before you pitch your yeast then there may be problems, though some beers are made with wild yeast no problems. Just because your cube has an infection doesn't mean it will definitely taste bad, I would say the odds are it will taste OK but thats just an opinion. You don't know what is in there, it may just be the yeast from your last brew.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

hmmm - Tony's call out to Darren is strangely enough appropriate.

What organism is it that is most likely to survive an environment where there has been 90+C temperatures and which is fundamentally anaerobic? What organism was the only one that actually caused anybody to seriously question the safety of no-chill?

Now its probably not that particular organism - but given that the cube is definitely infected and the (admittedly faint) possibility of it being the dreaded B, the notion of fermenting and drinking whats in that cube is nothing short of madness.

Tip it out... infections are for lawn food, and infected cubes doubly so.