Why Cant I Make A Starter From Cooper Paleale Yeast

[twenty]

Hello Everyone

I was hoping you could give me some pointers on what im doing wrong when trying to reculture the yeast from a coopers pale ale bottle.

1. Clean & sanitize bottle and cap.
2. boil about 1L of water and 200g of LDME for about 10-15 mins
3. while watching boil drink 2 Cooper Pale Ale stubbies using a glass to leave yeast behind
4. place cap back on stubbies to stop any nasties falling in
5. once boil is over place pot in sink with iceblocks to cool to room temperature
6. once cool pour into starter bottle - 750mL ex glass cordial bottle
7. tip dreggs of both stubbie into bottle
8. place lid on and shake

I have tried this method twice now and all i get is the sediment (yeast i assume) sitting on the bottom of the starter bottle and no action. i even give it a shake every now and then. after a couple of days in the first one i put a small splast of some trub from a us-56 and away she went, so i dont know whats going on.

Any one have anyway that i can nake this work?

 

[chimera]

seems to me like a pretty concise 'how to harvest yeast from commercial bottle conditioned beer' step guide... i don't see anything much wrong with your method.

I'd be suspect of the bottles you have - no knowing how old or what they've been through in transport.

 

[discoloop]

I've done it successfully using more yeast and less wort. I used sediment from four stubbies - all poured into one stubby. I then three-quarter filled the stubby with the cooled worth and covered with loose gladwrap and a tight rubber band to seal. Took about 36 hours to really get going and poured into a fermenter a week later.

 

[Trough Lolly]

G'day twenty...
200g of LDME in a 1L starter gives you an OG of 1.072!!

That's way too much LME to get the yeast back up and running in a relatively short timeframe. Consider the yeast as delicate organisms that need to be coaxed, not whipped back to life. Yeast from a stubbie that's been in the fridge are naturally dormant and you need to minimise the shock factor when you decant the yeast slurry into the starter. You should let the yeast well and truly get to room temp over the course of a day or so and then make sure that the starter wort temp is within 10 degrees C of the room temp otherwise the yeast cells will suffer temperature shock.

Halve the LME and you'll have a 1L starter at 1.032 which is probably closer to the OG that you'll be fermenting the yeast in. 100g of DME in 1L will give you an OG of 1.040.

I've had success in bringing old yeast back to life, starting with a 300ml starter and building it up every 24-36 hrs to finally get 1L of active krausening yeast on brewday - with a resultant 20 minute (not 8 hour) lag in the fermenter! So, I'd suggest you make a 300ml starter with 40g of LME (or 30g DME) and then add another 300g of starter wort in another 24-36 hrs and then a final 300-400ml innoculation of starter within 48 hours of the actual brewday - plan ahead. If you have viable yeast, you'll have a litre of active, fresh and viable yeast ready to get stuck into the fermenter wort with next to no lag...Just keep control of your temperatures - you need to when you ferment wort, so you should do the same when you ferment a starter...

Cheers,
TL

 

[dicko]

Hello Everyone

I was hoping you could give me some pointers on what im doing wrong when trying to reculture the yeast from a coopers pale ale bottle.

1. Clean & sanitize bottle and cap.
2. boil about 1L of water and 200g of LDME for about 10-15 mins
3. while watching boil drink 2 Cooper Pale Ale stubbies using a glass to leave yeast behind
4. place cap back on stubbies to stop any nasties falling in
5. once boil is over place pot in sink with iceblocks to cool to room temperature
6. once cool pour into starter bottle - 750mL ex glass cordial bottle
7. tip dreggs of both stubbie into bottle
8. place lid on and shake

I have tried this method twice now and all i get is the sediment (yeast i assume) sitting on the bottom of the starter bottle and no action. i even give it a shake every now and then. after a couple of days in the first one i put a small splast of some trub from a us-56 and away she went, so i dont know whats going on.

Any one have anyway that i can nake this work?

Hi twenty,


I would use only about 100 to 150 gr of malt as your sg might be a bit high with 200gr
I had the same problem with my first CPA yeast starter.
I used the dregs from three stubbies in a litre and three days later it was still dormant.
I asked the same question on this forum and was instructed by some "gurus" who had experienced the same problem to give it plenty of time.
I did so and on the fourth day away it went.
It was a beaut beer in the end.
Apparently it is to do with the age of the stubbies that you are using. ie; older takes longer.

Cheers

 

[dicko]

Oops!

TL and I were probably typing at the same time. His method sounds like a winner.

Cheers

 

[Fatgodzilla]

Oops!

TL and I were probably typing at the same time. His method sounds like a winner.

Cheers

Any advantage adding yeast nutrients to the mix ??

 

[Randall the Enamel Animal]

I was under the impression that Pale Ale used a hazing agent and didn't contain live yeast. Try Sparkling Ale.

 

[dicko]

I was under the impression that Pale Ale used a hazing agent and didn't contain live yeast. Try Sparkling Ale.

Hi RtEA,
I would doubt that theory as I have successfully made at least six starters from the CPA stubbie altho I would stand corrected If I were wrong.
I have also read (on this forum) that it is best to use the dregs from pale ale rather than sparkling as the sparkling is a stronger beer (abv) and the yeast may have been under more stress. Once again I stand to be corrected.

Cheers

 

[kevnlis]

My last starter was stepped up like TL's method. Except that I make 1 bottle of wort, and put the dregs in the other. I give the bottle of wort a good shake to aerate before I pour a little off into the bottle with the yeast to help it step up. I suggest you do it every 5 hours or less so the yeast do not finish their job. I add about 200ml to start and another 200ml or so with each go. The last one I did had the dregs of 6 CPA stubbies and took 5 days for the first 200ml to take off, but once I started stepping it up it went off very well!

 

[Sammus]

I've read that with low viable cell counts or unhealthy yeast (ie what would be in the bottom of a CPA bottle) even lower starter wort gravity is better. So maybe get them a little healthier in say a 250-500ml starter or 1.025 or 1.030 then step up to 1-2L at 1.040

 

[Hutch]

I was under the impression that Pale Ale used a hazing agent and didn't contain live yeast. Try Sparkling Ale.

I pressume you're suggesting that Coopers add a "hazing agent" to produce their trade-mark Pale ale clowdyness?
This is nonsense - it is primary yeast, as has been confirmed by hundreds of brewers who have succesfully cultured this yeast from Pale ale bottles (myself included), producing results very close to the original.

The Sparkling Ale also contains live yeast, though has been put under more stress due to the higher gravity wort.
Stick with Pale Ale stubbies, and get them from a bottle-o with a high turnover to ensure there are viable cells in the sediment.

 

[BoilerBoy]

Hi RtEA,
I would doubt that theory as I have successfully made at least six starters from the CPA stubbie altho I would stand corrected If I were wrong.
I have also read (on this forum) that it is best to use the dregs from pale ale rather than sparkling as the sparkling is a stronger beer (abv) and the yeast may have been under more stress. Once again I stand to be corrected.

Cheers

Agree with Dicko,

CPA And CSA are the same yeast;

I have managed to culture this yeast without a failure simply by doing pretty much the method as
twenty.

Except that I place the yeast from 1 or 2 stubbies in a small jar probably no more than 100ml with a small amount of starter wort, usually within 24 hours its taken off and then I add it to a bigger starter along with yeast nutrient.

I'm not Scientific, so please excuse my ignorance, :unsure: h34r: but from my own experience I dont think a small amount of relatively dormant yeast responds too well by being placed in a too bigger starter both in gravity size and volume.

Stepping up seems to work well for me.

Cheers
BB

 

[Randall the Enamel Animal]

Excellent. Learn something new every day. I might go back to drinking it.

 

[tangent]

also, ask your friendly bottlo bloke to find the freshest CPA bottles (dates printed on the bottle) old stubbies don't work as well as fresh ones. It's a great yeast IMO and worth the hassle.

 

[haysie]

great topic, can boilerboy/andrewqld/tangent/others suggest an alternative should a start up not start up, i was planning to put down a boilerboy/andrewqld a/g friday week, the recipe i was following was whitelabs wlp009 as an altenative.
i will follow tl and bb how too get a starter fired up and post back
haysie

 

[cfresh]

Just a NOOB but here is my experience...
I can vouch for the Coopers Pale Ale yeast as I used 2 stubbies as per the instructions in the articles section and worked a charm first time. I had fermentation action overnight with a nice foaming and CO2 in 24 hours. When making the starter I made sure everything was at room temp when pitching into the wort by having the stubbies, wort etc in the same water so it equalised. I also made sure that the stubbies settled for at least 2 hours before pouring off 80% of the contents carefully into a glass. I then drank the 80% of both stubbies ensuring that my beer would taste alright. I then drank another 2 full stubbies to be 200% sure - you never can be too sure...

 

[kevnlis]

Another great tip, if you buy OzTops you can ferment the starter with one on, then refridgerate your starter between steps and drink the carbonated beer off the top of the trub each time

ETA: Also now that Ross has the hop extracts you could make a decent easy beer this way, and you are not wasting the malt!

 

[tangent]

why drink two when they come in 6 packs? More yeast!

 

[BoilerBoy]

great topic, can boilerboy/andrewqld/tangent/others suggest an alternative should a start up not start up, i was planning to put down a boilerboy/andrewqld a/g friday week, the recipe i was following was whitelabs wlp009 as an altenative.
i will follow tl and bb how too get a starter fired up and post back
haysie

Just make sure you have been successful in culturing the yeast a good week or 5 days before brew day.

If it gets firing early you can either add more starter wort or fridge it for a couple of days.

All the best
BB