White Rabbit: White Ale Recipe (first Partial Attempt)

[Impy]

Hi guys,

My first kit is bottled and I'm fairly confident it's going to be tasty (brewcraft asahi, smells and tastes good at the mo - just waiting to carb)

I've recently been quite impressed with White Rabbits new White Ale and thought i'd have a go at a partial clone. I've had a scour for wit beer recipes and have put together this test recipe and would love some more experience brewers opinions or tips. (i'm getting the ingredients from Dave's Homebrew in North Sydney)

- 1.5kg Wheat LME
- 1.0kg Wheat DME
- 250g Oats (steep in grain bag @ ~70deg for 30min 2L water)

- Sparge oats then bring to boil for hops additions.

- 28g Hallertau Hops (@ 60min in mini-mash)
- 28g Saaz Hops (@ 10min in mini-mash)
- 24g Bitter orange peel (I can't find this stuff anywhere!)
- 24g Coriander seeds (lightly crushed)

- Belgium white beer yeast

Since most recipes online are in US measurements I've converted the hops qtys to match. Is using all wheat LME and DME going to be too overpowering in the wheat department or is that ok for this wit beer style?

Also, how does my oats usage look? It seems to be a common theme in wit beer recipes. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't going overboard on the qty.

Thanks!

 

[Swinging Beef]

Hey, mate.
Witbier and hefeweisen is one of the main reasons I started brewing AG. It's just too hard to get the right colours and flavours from extracts in Australia.
The wheat extract you get here is 1/2 wheat and 1/2 pale malt, so quite dark.
Witbier and hef dont give you a lot of room to hide the extract twang behind yeast character or hop aroma either.

Having said all that...
TO my mind for the White Rabbit white ale, you are on the right track.
I dont detect any belgian wit yeast aroma when I drink it, though, but perhaps mine werent fresh.
Maybe skip on the oats, they might make life a little more complicated than it needs to be for this beer.
Orange peel can be bought dried from asian grocers and so can good corriander.
Crack the corriander and break up the orange peel to tiny bits.
Pop these in in the last 5 minutes of the boil only.
Your hop schedule looks good for this beer.

 

[Dazza_devil]

Hi guys,

My first kit is bottled and I'm fairly confident it's going to be tasty (brewcraft asahi, smells and tastes good at the mo - just waiting to carb)

I've recently been quite impressed with White Rabbits new White Ale and thought i'd have a go at a partial clone. I've had a scour for wit beer recipes and have put together this test recipe and would love some more experience brewers opinions or tips. (i'm getting the ingredients from Dave's Homebrew in North Sydney)

- 1.5kg Wheat LME
- 1.0kg Wheat DME
- 250g Oats (steep in grain bag @ ~70deg for 30min 2L water)

- Sparge oats then bring to boil for hops additions.

- 28g Hallertau Hops (@ 60min in mini-mash)
- 28g Saaz Hops (@ 10min in mini-mash)
- 24g Bitter orange peel (I can't find this stuff anywhere!)
- 24g Coriander seeds (lightly crushed)

- Belgium white beer yeast

Since most recipes online are in US measurements I've converted the hops qtys to match. Is using all wheat LME and DME going to be too overpowering in the wheat department or is that ok for this wit beer style?

Also, how does my oats usage look? It seems to be a common theme in wit beer recipes. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't going overboard on the qty.

Thanks!

I'm new to partials and about to do my first in a couple of days but have done a fair amount of research on the matter recently.
Your recipe looks like an extract recipe with oats to me, as opposed to a partial recipe which would have some base malt grains substituted for the dried or liquid extract. I reckon the oats are gonna need some base malt in there and you will have to do a full 60 min mash to gain anything from them. I may be wrong but the recipes I have looked at in the past that had oats in them needed to be mashed with a base malt. Someone with a little more experience may be able to shed some more light on this for you.

 

[Impy]

Hey, mate.
Witbier and hefeweisen is one of the main reasons I started brewing AG. It's just too hard to get the right colours and flavours from extracts in Australia.
The wheat extract you get here is 1/2 wheat and 1/2 pale malt, so quite dark.
Witbier and hef dont give you a lot of room to hide the extract twang behind yeast character or hop aroma either.

Having said all that...
TO my mind for the White Rabbit white ale, you are on the right track.
I dont detect any belgian wit yeast aroma when I drink it, though, but perhaps mine werent fresh.
Maybe skip on the oats, they might make life a little more complicated than it needs to be for this beer.
Orange peel can be bought dried from asian grocers and so can good corriander.
Crack the corriander and break up the orange peel to tiny bits.
Pop these in in the last 5 minutes of the boil only.
Your hop schedule looks good for this beer.

Thanks for the tips and info on where to get the orange peel.

A little more info on the hops, when I was looking through the white labs yeast I noticed the wit beer yeast WLP400 had fairly regular comments regarding a fruity notes and taste but I don't remember tasting or smelling that at all. That's why I settled for the WLP550 which was still appropriate for the white beer style, but seemed to follow more spicy / citrus notes and taste which is what I predominantly remember.

 

[Impy]

I'm new to partials and about to do my first in a couple of days but have done a fair amount of research on the matter recently.
Your recipe looks like an extract recipe with oats to me, as opposed to a partial recipe which would have some base malt grains substituted for the dried or liquid extract. I reckon the oats are gonna need some base malt in there and you will have to do a full 60 min mash to gain anything from them. I may be wrong but the recipes I have looked at in the past that had oats in them needed to be mashed with a base malt. Someone with a little more experience may be able to shed some more light on this for you.

Yeah i'll put some malt for the steeping (i'm following the mini-mash instructions from the home brewing book I got with my Brewcraft Delux kit)

 

[Swinging Beef]

I got no classic witbier aromas from the White Rabbit I had.
So I went back to the Dark Ale... Mmmm... yummy.
I suspect, from my own megre pallet, that it is something clean like US05 fermented a wee bit warmer.
I found this beer to be pleasant and white but not a clsssic witbier

As Boagsey said, this isnt reeally a 'partial' recipe.
Witbier doesnt make a lot of sense to make a parital from, as usually, the partial component is specialty grains, steeped to provide flavour, body and aroma.
Witbier tend to have no spec grains, and is simply 50/50 wheat and pils, both of which need to be mashed/converted.

Save your partial brew for your next one.

 

[mkstalen]

The White Rabbit White Ale I had at the beer festival on Sunday tasted like it was flavour driven mostly with Galaxy Hops. I think they even had a bowl of dried Galaxy Hop bines at their stand.

Just my 2c.

(I did kill a few brain cells though, so i could be mistaken with another stand & beer...)

 

[Aus_Rider_22]

The White Rabbit White Ale I had at the beer festival on Sunday tasted like it was flavour driven mostly with Galaxy Hops. I think they even had a bowl of dried Galaxy Hop bines at their stand.

Just my 2c.

(I did kill a few brain cells though, so i could be mistaken with another stand & beer...)

Interesting you say that. I was very underwhelmed when I tried the White Ale. I loved the dark ale and was looking forward to the sixer of white ale. I couldn't taste much hoppiness and had a weird twang to it in my opinion. Unless I got a dud 6 pack I was very disappointed with it. I would prefer to drink a simple POR AG of my own over the white ale that I tasted. :unsure:

You didn't happen to have this beer mixed up with Stone and Wood Draught Ale did you? It has a nice and refreshing hit of Galaxy.

 

[haysie]

Interesting you say that. I was very underwhelmed when I tried the White Ale. I loved the dark ale and was looking forward to the sixer of white ale. I couldn't taste much hoppiness and had a weird twang to it in my opinion. Unless I got a dud 6 pack I was very disappointed with it. I would prefer to drink a simple POR AG of my own over the white ale that I tasted. :unsure:

You didn't happen to have this beer mixed up with Stone and Wood Draught Ale did you? It has a nice and refreshing hit of Galaxy.

I agree, a little DULL but it does taste what they claim it to be, a belgian type ale.
Not sure why micros go for these cloudy ****** presenting beers? Cant they brew bright beers that appease the mob rather than brewing to a clique.
My crownie swilling mate turned his nose up at it....... presentation alone, didnt blame him, looks like something Uncle Arthur brewed up in the shed.
It didnt prompt me to ever think about buying it again.... V/Average.

 

[bconnery]

I agree, a little DULL but it does taste what they claim it to be, a belgian type ale.
Not sure why micros go for these cloudy ****** presenting beers? Cant they brew bright beers that appease the mob rather than brewing to a clique.
My crownie swilling mate turned his nose up at it....... presentation alone, didnt blame him, looks like something Uncle Arthur brewed up in the shed.
It didnt prompt me to ever think about buying it again.... V/Average.

I mean fancy a wit beer, being traditionally hazy and not at all bright and all, being brewed to be that way.


OP, as other's have said it is difficult to get a wit beer on extract alone.
If you can do a partial mash, go for some pilsner malt and raw wheat of some form (available from any good HBS) in addition to your extract. It will be darker than a wit but a decent stab can be made.
A wit yeast would still be the best choice I think.

White Rabbit White is primed with honey too, just for something different.

From my readings or reviews of this beer people have had different experiences with quality and freshness. I've never had a bad bottle or glass of it, but others seemed to have, even some who've enjoyed it one 6 pack and then found it lacking another.

 

[haysie]

I mean fancy a wit beer, being traditionally hazy and not at all bright and all, being brewed to be that way.

DULL, and hazy. Yeah like a witbier if your into style guidelines and all that nonsense as I would think the majority of beer drinkers are not.
Thx for the clarification of a wit being hazy....... pardon the pun..

Wouldnt be a hard beer to make, low attentuation, low ibus, fair amount adjunct/sugar, very low floc yeast. Not sure if unmalted is required, I would expect some noticable tartness but I didnt get it, yeast dominated beer.

 

[mkstalen]

You didn't happen to have this beer mixed up with Stone and Wood Draught Ale did you? It has a nice and refreshing hit of Galaxy.

Possible. I think the two stands were close to each other. The afternoon did end a little blurry.

 

[Kai]

White Rabbit White does not use a belgian witbier yeast, it's fermented with the same English ale strain as the dark ale is.

 

[manticle]

I missed tasting this at the showcase last night. Had intended to because it was on tap (unless I didn't look close enough and it was only the dark on tap?)

I've only tried it bottled. I like it - it's not wow in your face beer but subtle and that's not always a bad thing. I think there's a difference between subtle and bland.

As to the recipe - the oats really stand out. What are the instructions you have? What kind of oats are you intending to use?

for yeast, I'd just culture some from the bottles of a six pack you've drunk.

 

[Josh]

very low floc yeast.

Witbier gets its haze from proteins in unmalted wheat, not low floccing yeast.


If you can't find bitter orange peel, you can make a Wit using zest of sweet oranges. I make a Wit not close to White Rabbit White. I like an almost spritzy zest character in my Wits. I use about 300g of orange, lemon, lime and grapefruit zest in a 20-23L batch.

For your clone, you could try some chamomile in your spice additions also. A lot of commercial Witbiers us chamomile. Most of the best homebrewed versions I've tried have had chamomile in them. Not sure if this would steer you closer or further from a WRWA clone though.

 

[haysie]

Witbier gets its haze from proteins in unmalted wheat, not low floccing yeast.



For your clone, you could try some chamomile in your spice additions also. A lot of commercial Witbiers us chamomile.

A lot of Witbiers taste like listerine from too much chamomile or cori etc. Tread with caution.

Low floc yeast doesnt enhance haze huh? Disagree with your yeast theory, nonetheless unmalted wheat will clear over time after the proteins have dropped. Kristal clear.

I now know White rabbit Ale uses English yeast <_< , Wits are hazy and unmalted wheat is a requirement. The things you learn on AHB B) .

Is it worth $8 a glass? No way No................. Is it worth $20 a sixer? No.
You can drink real Belgian beer at the same prices.

edit> Here in Melbourne you can.

 

[Josh]

A lot of Witbiers taste like listerine from too much chamomile or cori etc. Tread with caution.

Low floc yeast doesnt enhance haze huh? Disagree with your yeast theory, nonetheless unmalted wheat will clear over time after the proteins have dropped. Kristal clear.

I now know White rabbit Ale uses English yeast <_< , Wits are hazy and unmalted wheat is a requirement. The things you learn on AHB B) .

I know, right?

 

[Kai]

Witbier gets its haze from proteins in unmalted wheat, not low floccing yeast.


If you can't find bitter orange peel, you can make a Wit using zest of sweet oranges. I make a Wit not close to White Rabbit White. I like an almost spritzy zest character in my Wits. I use about 300g of orange, lemon, lime and grapefruit zest in a 20-23L batch.

Another option, it might sound 'lower class' but works well from personal experience, is Angas Park mixed peel. Adds some great zesty flavours, 5% lemon doesn't hurt and readily available.

 

[Kai]

A lot of Witbiers taste like listerine from too much chamomile or cori etc. Tread with caution.

Low floc yeast doesnt enhance haze huh? Disagree with your yeast theory, nonetheless unmalted wheat will clear over time after the proteins have dropped. Kristal clear.

I now know White rabbit Ale uses English yeast <_< , Wits are hazy and unmalted wheat is a requirement. The things you learn on AHB B) .

Is it worth $8 a glass? No way No................. Is it worth $20 a sixer? No.
You can drink real Belgian beer at the same prices.

edit> Here in Melbourne you can.

It should be available for less than $20 a sixer and definitely for less than $8 a glass. 8$ a pint maybe, that's acceptable.

Also worth pointing out that the beer is not specifically meant to be a Belgian beer!

 

[Kai]

I call it White Rabbit White Ale.