Where To Buy A Kit From?
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KillerRx4
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Gough said:Beerpig said:
Yep, and when Coles and Woolies have killed all the smaller shops we can all go back to brewing with Coopers kits and table sugar and if we are really wealthy, hops we've imported from the US. That'll be great. We'll all feel so much better about the $10 we saved on a starter kit in 2005.Sorry, rant over...
h34r:
Shawn.
[post="55625"][/post]
Bah, Get the kit from Big W / K mart etc, get brew enhancer / DME & LME from there also & Coopers Pale ale kits also from there.
You make it sound as if you cant brew decent beer shopping at supermarkets which is BS.
Maybe when you want to brew AG a HBS is where to shop but until then theres no need.
Steve Lacey
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I'll buy into this on two points:
1. Snap-on lids seal just fine, and the completely straight sides make cleaning soooo much easier and more reliable. With screw-on lids you can certainly get in there and clean it, but I like the fact you can see everything perfectly with a straight-sided fermenter.
2. Small shops versus woolies. In general I say support the home brew shops. BUT, Beerpig does have a valid point, and it is a hobby horse of everyone's, WTF is the value of all those little shops that do little more than sell kits and a few sundry supplies? No fresh hops? No liquid yeast? Grain might extend to some dried up old crystal or black malt if you are lucky. While the kit shelves and booster packs probably offer more choice than Woolies, the real crunch comes when you want to get a bit more adventurous and the bozo behind the counter not only doesn't have the knowledge to help, but actually wants to discourage you from advancing beyond his own narrow horizon. Do we really need to support shops like this? Still, if you live where there are shops with enlightened owners that offer a lot more options for your brewig, by all means support them from the start and you will never regret it.
My 2c.
1. Snap-on lids seal just fine, and the completely straight sides make cleaning soooo much easier and more reliable. With screw-on lids you can certainly get in there and clean it, but I like the fact you can see everything perfectly with a straight-sided fermenter.
2. Small shops versus woolies. In general I say support the home brew shops. BUT, Beerpig does have a valid point, and it is a hobby horse of everyone's, WTF is the value of all those little shops that do little more than sell kits and a few sundry supplies? No fresh hops? No liquid yeast? Grain might extend to some dried up old crystal or black malt if you are lucky. While the kit shelves and booster packs probably offer more choice than Woolies, the real crunch comes when you want to get a bit more adventurous and the bozo behind the counter not only doesn't have the knowledge to help, but actually wants to discourage you from advancing beyond his own narrow horizon. Do we really need to support shops like this? Still, if you live where there are shops with enlightened owners that offer a lot more options for your brewig, by all means support them from the start and you will never regret it.
My 2c.
just read the "new to homebrew scene" post as well, before you start
Edit: also, in the supermarket/HBS debate, you can only buy limited options at the supermarket:
- the range is coopers' basic, tooheys and homebrands
- no liquid malts, hops, yeasts
At the very least, even with crappy advice, the HBS has a better kit range, for example coopers "deluxe" range (if you're lucky it'll include ESB's 3Kgs packs or Malt Shovel packs, that don't need anything else, for your first tries, or even the ESB fresh wort), the HBS usually has SAF dry yeast, hops can be hit or miss depending how they're conditioned/stored, and liquid yeasts if you're lucky.
As a kit brewer, the most important steps:
- temperature control: you can use the basic coopers kit, just keep temperatures around 18-20 (with an ale yeast). Do not brew at 26+ degrees, the result won't be anywhere near what you might expect.
- read a lot, both here and the forums at homebrewandbeer.com, where there are a lot of kit brewers
- go to your HBS for larger kit selections, better dry yeasts (SAFAle/SAFLager/SAFWheat) and hopefully some decent advice - I think it helps to read stuff here first, go to the HBS, ask them, and if they say something that doesn't match what you read here - they're usually wrong
- look on the net for online sources of more variety, for example grumpy's kits, or just for things your HBS doesn't provide (grains or liquid yeasts for ex.).
- read www.howtobrew.com
- don't expect marvels of your first kit ...
- be patient
- have fun
:chug:
Edit: also, in the supermarket/HBS debate, you can only buy limited options at the supermarket:
- the range is coopers' basic, tooheys and homebrands
- no liquid malts, hops, yeasts
At the very least, even with crappy advice, the HBS has a better kit range, for example coopers "deluxe" range (if you're lucky it'll include ESB's 3Kgs packs or Malt Shovel packs, that don't need anything else, for your first tries, or even the ESB fresh wort), the HBS usually has SAF dry yeast, hops can be hit or miss depending how they're conditioned/stored, and liquid yeasts if you're lucky.
As a kit brewer, the most important steps:
- temperature control: you can use the basic coopers kit, just keep temperatures around 18-20 (with an ale yeast). Do not brew at 26+ degrees, the result won't be anywhere near what you might expect.
- read a lot, both here and the forums at homebrewandbeer.com, where there are a lot of kit brewers
- go to your HBS for larger kit selections, better dry yeasts (SAFAle/SAFLager/SAFWheat) and hopefully some decent advice - I think it helps to read stuff here first, go to the HBS, ask them, and if they say something that doesn't match what you read here - they're usually wrong
- look on the net for online sources of more variety, for example grumpy's kits, or just for things your HBS doesn't provide (grains or liquid yeasts for ex.).
- read www.howtobrew.com
- don't expect marvels of your first kit ...
- be patient
- have fun
:chug:
OK, Points taken fellas.
Obviously here in Newcastle we must be lucky in that we have 3 hb shops of note. 1 is a classic case of what Beerpig has experienced, where the owner is more interested in selling 'VB' beermats and glasses than anything else, and in terms of advice once told me that mashing was just boiling a Kilo of grain for an hour before chucking everything in with the kit and adding your sugar :huh: This bloke is obviously not great for the hobby and certainly hasn't had my support...
The other two shops both make the effort to stock a range of fresh hops and liquid yeasts, carry base malts and specialty grains and are only too happy to help anyone interested in improving their brews and their techniques. One in particualr has gone out of its way to help me over the years and I now count the owner as a friend. I would not be ag brewing or as into the hobby/craft as I now am without this assistance.
So the point I was trying (clunkily!) to make was that if you can develop a relationship with a GOOD hbs it is beneficial to you as a brewer, to them as business people and I would argue to the health of the hobby overall. I'm much happier to see my hard earned in my hbs' pocket where possible than further assisting the national dominance over the food and beverage industry of Woolies and ColesMyer.
If you don't have a decent hbs handy or the one you can get to is run by a cowboy then obviously you buy your gear where you can get it. When the question was asked though 'where should I buy my starter kit?', given the help I've received over the years from my hbs I put in a vote for them over the big supermarkets.
For what it is worth I think the Coopers starter kits are an excellent way to get into the hobby. Go for it, but maybe just try a local hbs as well if you can find one. They should be able to take your brewing further than the checkout operators...
Shawn
Obviously here in Newcastle we must be lucky in that we have 3 hb shops of note. 1 is a classic case of what Beerpig has experienced, where the owner is more interested in selling 'VB' beermats and glasses than anything else, and in terms of advice once told me that mashing was just boiling a Kilo of grain for an hour before chucking everything in with the kit and adding your sugar :huh: This bloke is obviously not great for the hobby and certainly hasn't had my support...
The other two shops both make the effort to stock a range of fresh hops and liquid yeasts, carry base malts and specialty grains and are only too happy to help anyone interested in improving their brews and their techniques. One in particualr has gone out of its way to help me over the years and I now count the owner as a friend. I would not be ag brewing or as into the hobby/craft as I now am without this assistance.
So the point I was trying (clunkily!) to make was that if you can develop a relationship with a GOOD hbs it is beneficial to you as a brewer, to them as business people and I would argue to the health of the hobby overall. I'm much happier to see my hard earned in my hbs' pocket where possible than further assisting the national dominance over the food and beverage industry of Woolies and ColesMyer.
If you don't have a decent hbs handy or the one you can get to is run by a cowboy then obviously you buy your gear where you can get it. When the question was asked though 'where should I buy my starter kit?', given the help I've received over the years from my hbs I put in a vote for them over the big supermarkets.
For what it is worth I think the Coopers starter kits are an excellent way to get into the hobby. Go for it, but maybe just try a local hbs as well if you can find one. They should be able to take your brewing further than the checkout operators...
Shawn
Dunkel_Boy
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Bozza - which suburb are you in?
Beerpig - you can get get a lot of advice on this forum, and the KMart/Coles kits are low-low prices, but to save him getting discouraged because his Coopers kit doesn't taste good, or to have to spend $30 on a better fermenter a few brews down the track, might not be the best idea.
Talking with somebody is far better than posting on a forum, and you can always check what the HBS owner says with the forum guys.
Beerpig - you can get get a lot of advice on this forum, and the KMart/Coles kits are low-low prices, but to save him getting discouraged because his Coopers kit doesn't taste good, or to have to spend $30 on a better fermenter a few brews down the track, might not be the best idea.
Talking with somebody is far better than posting on a forum, and you can always check what the HBS owner says with the forum guys.
Borret
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And the coopers video is good for a laugh. Paulie's assistant (lisa?) won't even drink the beer.
I must agree with what Shawn has said. Have heard other reports from the first shop that are just not right. The guy there even thanked me for helping him pay off his morgage on one visit so you can see where his interests lay. I no longer go there.
However when I have visited the the others they give you the time and advice in creating a beer they would be proud of.
If the guy in the store has obviuosly never given the time to further himself then how do you expect him to help you out. Support a good HBS or online supplier and reep the benefits.
Borret
I must agree with what Shawn has said. Have heard other reports from the first shop that are just not right. The guy there even thanked me for helping him pay off his morgage on one visit so you can see where his interests lay. I no longer go there.
However when I have visited the the others they give you the time and advice in creating a beer they would be proud of.
If the guy in the store has obviuosly never given the time to further himself then how do you expect him to help you out. Support a good HBS or online supplier and reep the benefits.
Borret
Bozza
By all means go to Woolies/Kmart/Coles etc to buy your FIRST kit, follow the instructions and taste the fruits of your labour in a few weeks time. It will be drinkable and you will enjoy it because you made it.
BUT THEN:
Find a decent HBS near you (take advise from those nearby ie. Ross, Sluggerdog, Dunkel Boy etc etc) and tell him you have just done a supermarket kit and kilo and want to take some small steps toward making a better beer. If he's worth his salt he will gently steer you towards replacing the sugar and maybe include a few hops here and there to start with.
Keep reading this and other forums, read howtobrew and before you know it, you will be breaking free and trying all sorts of stuff!!!
I use three different HBS depending on what I need. You will soon work out which HBS is best for your needs.
My 2c.
Cheers
By all means go to Woolies/Kmart/Coles etc to buy your FIRST kit, follow the instructions and taste the fruits of your labour in a few weeks time. It will be drinkable and you will enjoy it because you made it.
BUT THEN:
Find a decent HBS near you (take advise from those nearby ie. Ross, Sluggerdog, Dunkel Boy etc etc) and tell him you have just done a supermarket kit and kilo and want to take some small steps toward making a better beer. If he's worth his salt he will gently steer you towards replacing the sugar and maybe include a few hops here and there to start with.
Keep reading this and other forums, read howtobrew and before you know it, you will be breaking free and trying all sorts of stuff!!!
I use three different HBS depending on what I need. You will soon work out which HBS is best for your needs.
My 2c.
Cheers
PostModern
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I never said to support a crap HBS. I'm pretty sure I said to find a "good brew shop". If Brisbane doesn't have one, I'd be surprised.
Until my LHBS opened up, I travelled from Wollongong to Peakhurst to shop at ESB (about 50km). Now that my LHBS is there (and he's a k+k man) I shop with him almost exclusively and he rewards my (and all the local brewers') loyalty by getting in whatever we want, even if it isn't what he would use himself. He is a sensible business man.
If your HBS sells nothing but cheap kits and brewing paraphenalia, then find another but as Gough said, some of the market share has to shift away from the Supermarkets or the small business will close down and our hobby will return to the dark ages of kits and white sugar.
Brewing is meant to be inexpensive, not CHEAP!
Until my LHBS opened up, I travelled from Wollongong to Peakhurst to shop at ESB (about 50km). Now that my LHBS is there (and he's a k+k man) I shop with him almost exclusively and he rewards my (and all the local brewers') loyalty by getting in whatever we want, even if it isn't what he would use himself. He is a sensible business man.
If your HBS sells nothing but cheap kits and brewing paraphenalia, then find another but as Gough said, some of the market share has to shift away from the Supermarkets or the small business will close down and our hobby will return to the dark ages of kits and white sugar.
Brewing is meant to be inexpensive, not CHEAP!
PostModern
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BeerPig My LHBS is "Northern Brew" in Woonona. He's on the highway near the Skate arena and Pizza Hut takeaway. He's a keg specialist if that helps you decide what to save your dollars for. Tell Allan that Rob sent you.
I don't mean to come across as a screaming loony about this (somehow I invariably succeed at just that), but when I decided to get back into brewing, I looked at what the supermarkets and department stores had almost cried. Kits and dextrose... I ended up going to a brew shop on the other side of the 'gong and bought him out of malt extract (1Kg thereof), hops (1 "teabag" left) and bench cappers ("not much call for these"). That bloke went out of business not long after, unsurprisingly.
The marketplace will take care of the bad HBS's but the good ones have no chance if you give all of your brewing budget to Franklins/Coles/Kmart. I'm more than happy to pay 50c extra for priming sugar and a couple of bucks on kits because I know the shop will bring in yeast, hops, extracts, grains, anything that his suppliers stock, in fact.
I don't mean to come across as a screaming loony about this (somehow I invariably succeed at just that), but when I decided to get back into brewing, I looked at what the supermarkets and department stores had almost cried. Kits and dextrose... I ended up going to a brew shop on the other side of the 'gong and bought him out of malt extract (1Kg thereof), hops (1 "teabag" left) and bench cappers ("not much call for these"). That bloke went out of business not long after, unsurprisingly.
The marketplace will take care of the bad HBS's but the good ones have no chance if you give all of your brewing budget to Franklins/Coles/Kmart. I'm more than happy to pay 50c extra for priming sugar and a couple of bucks on kits because I know the shop will bring in yeast, hops, extracts, grains, anything that his suppliers stock, in fact.
Dunkel_Boy
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Seems Coopers have upgraded their kit.
30L screw-top fermenter, and some PET bottles.
I still think you should support your LHBS though...
30L screw-top fermenter, and some PET bottles.
I still think you should support your LHBS though...
shmick
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PostModern said:
I would rather pay a little extra also if the LHBS was willing to stock a few basic items for the 'advanced' brewers and promote these to the keen newbies.
I was in one particular HBS not long ago and spyed a 1kg bag of wheat malt for $18.50 and it was extra to get it crushed <_< .
I don't consider this amount a 'little' extra. It is probably enough to put any budding all-grainer off trying it.
On the other hand, last time I was in this store a few months back, they had just ordered in 100kg of grain for bloke who then decided he didn't wan't it. They a lot of trouble moving it because they just don't have the demand.
Kicked myself for not buying it all off them at the time.
fergi
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also just another thing,if you have a problem with your brew try going into BIG W or COLES and asking the check out chick why is my homemade beer too gassy or why does it have a funny taste etc.or even what yeast would you recomend for a lager.
cheers
fergi
cheers
fergi
Gout
Bentleigh Brau Haus
LOL good point fergi
I say a little mark up is fine as they dont have the buying power of the coles etc and every man/brewer/lady needs to make a living. If they help me and only charge a little more i say hell help them out. If they are trying to rip you off, i dont bother...
in all the above also take into account the cost of advice, time and effort etc.. most the LHBS are good, it does not take long to work out the bad ones.... like the one that said i was wasting my time with AG when i needed to grab some wheat malt, he went to the point of trying to make fun of me for spending so much time brewing. He handed me a "MSB wheat, he had made from the kit and said there, with beer like this why bother! I never did finish that beer LOL... never been back
(Same guy that said liquid yeasts are a waste of money)
I think grain and grape on the other side of the city would be happy as they now get my brew budget!
I say a little mark up is fine as they dont have the buying power of the coles etc and every man/brewer/lady needs to make a living. If they help me and only charge a little more i say hell help them out. If they are trying to rip you off, i dont bother...
in all the above also take into account the cost of advice, time and effort etc.. most the LHBS are good, it does not take long to work out the bad ones.... like the one that said i was wasting my time with AG when i needed to grab some wheat malt, he went to the point of trying to make fun of me for spending so much time brewing. He handed me a "MSB wheat, he had made from the kit and said there, with beer like this why bother! I never did finish that beer LOL... never been back
(Same guy that said liquid yeasts are a waste of money)
I think grain and grape on the other side of the city would be happy as they now get my brew budget!
big d
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well im chomping at the bit to get down south and have a long look over the local home brew shops.
as i see it if you ask questions and they give answers that you know arent full bottle then let them know and hopefully they will take it on board.if you get the so what you know better answer then avoid this shop.
if there willing to give "good advice" then they should be willing "to take it" in return.
one could always resort to showing them a good brew book or two to show them otherwise.
cheers
big d
as i see it if you ask questions and they give answers that you know arent full bottle then let them know and hopefully they will take it on board.if you get the so what you know better answer then avoid this shop.
if there willing to give "good advice" then they should be willing "to take it" in return.
one could always resort to showing them a good brew book or two to show them otherwise.
cheers
big d
johnno
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Hi Gout,Gout said:
I reckon I could easily guess that particular shop.
Grain and Grape also get my vote. They are excellent.
The only problem i have with them is that they are usually so busy there is not much time for a chat.
cheers
johnno
Hey Bozza
(JD here from ESB!!!!)
I got into this over Christmas. Started with a Tooheys kit from Kmart. It contained the carboy, capper, tooheys draught mixture and pretty much everything you need to do a basic brew (except the bottles).
I put together two Tooheys draught mixes but found them to be decidedly average.
I think that the Coopers brews are great just for doing basic home brew beers.
I've done a few stouts, real ales and now draughts. I've got about 120 bottles of various longnecks stored now just waiting for them to age. It's a bit of an addiction once you get started.
The three most important rules with home brewing are:-
1. cleanliness
2. cleanliness
3. cleanliness
You've got to maintain the right temperatures too or else you can easily destroy a batch. Now is a great time of year to do brewing.
Get yourself a good bench capper too. The kit cappers only do crown type seals, which is good if you have plenty of crown type bottles which you can buy from home brew shops etc.
(JD here from ESB!!!!)
I got into this over Christmas. Started with a Tooheys kit from Kmart. It contained the carboy, capper, tooheys draught mixture and pretty much everything you need to do a basic brew (except the bottles).
I put together two Tooheys draught mixes but found them to be decidedly average.
I think that the Coopers brews are great just for doing basic home brew beers.
I've done a few stouts, real ales and now draughts. I've got about 120 bottles of various longnecks stored now just waiting for them to age. It's a bit of an addiction once you get started.
The three most important rules with home brewing are:-
1. cleanliness
2. cleanliness
3. cleanliness
You've got to maintain the right temperatures too or else you can easily destroy a batch. Now is a great time of year to do brewing.
Get yourself a good bench capper too. The kit cappers only do crown type seals, which is good if you have plenty of crown type bottles which you can buy from home brew shops etc.
