Where Did I Go Wrong ?

[arsenewenger]

Morning all.
Last night was my first brew in a very long time I was very excited to be doing it and had looked forward to it all week ,I had read and re-read all the notes I had and checked and re-checked all my euipment to make sure it was all ok. Everything went fine and according to the recipe below however when the boil was finnished and i racked into the fermentor I only ended up with 12 liters of wort. The kettle had a very minor drip (i mean minor) prior to the final boil but the heat stopped that once it was under way. The only difference I can think of at the minute is that this was done for the first time in my shed instaed of the usual outside brewing that i did but even though ths shed got warm (the walls and steel beams aswell) surely that would not mean i would lose 10 liters to evaporation.
If anyone has anyidea it would be grealty appreciated I dont really want to add water to this to make 23liters(i never do but this is a half half brew with a mate so i might consider it)
Thanks
AW

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: SCOTTISH 80/
Brewer: Tony Kapeller
Asst Brewer:
Style: Scottish Export 80/-
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Boil Size: 27.70 L
Estimated OG: 1.051 SG
Estimated Color: 13.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 19.8 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.30 kg Pale Malt (Barrett Burston) (2.0 SRM) Grain 66.00 %
1.20 kg Munich, Dark (Joe White) (15.0 SRM) Grain 24.00 %
0.20 kg Amber Malt (Joe White) (23.0 SRM) Grain 4.00 %
0.20 kg Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 4.00 %
0.10 kg Chocolate Malt (Joe White) (381.0 SRM) Grain 2.00 %
10.00 gm Newport [13.50 %] (90 min) Hops 15.5 IBU
15.00 gm Fuggles [4.50 %] (20 min) Hops 4.4 IBU
1 Pkgs Scottish Ale (Wyeast Labs #1728) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 5.00 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
90 min Mash In Add 13.03 L of water at 77.9 C 70.0 C

 

[Ecosse]

Hi AW,

Ah that's a bit disapointing for you.

Might be evaporation rate. Mine is pretty high and I need to start a 90 minute boil with about 33 liters in the kettle to end up with 19 in the fermenter (leaving another 2 liters of hop soup in the kettle). If you started the boil with 27.7 liters this might not have been enough given evaporation and losses to finish up with 23...wouldn't have been for me.

How is the OG? If you've concentrated the wort through the boil that extra water might be a good thing to reach your target gravity...or you may have discovered a Scottish 180

 

[arsenewenger]

Good Point Ecosse , i dont normally measure the gravity at all just ferment prime 7days secondary 7 day then bulk prime and bottle but it might be worht checking this time because it may be concentrated although a 180 sounds quite enticing

AW

 

[Guest Lurker]

If the kettle and burner are the same, then evaporation is mostly controlled by the air flow over the kettle and the humidity of the air. Both of which should mean less evaporation in a shed compared to outside. Maybe a lot of your burner heat gets blown away when outside?

 

[clarkey7]

When I brew outside, the wind is a major factor with evaporation rate.

Temp and humidity would also come into the equation.

Now that your brewing in the shed, your burner effeciency would have increased significantly due to the absence of wind. IMO anyway.

Maybe make it up to 18L with water depending on your OG.

Cheers,

PB :icon_cheers:

 

[Bribie G]

I don't measure the exact pre boil volume, I would guess it's something like 32 litres (After 33 brews in the urn I just 'know' what the level should be) and after a 90 min boil I usually end up with enough for the 23L cube and maybe a litre left over for feeding a starter. So losing ten plus litres with a gas burner would be quite understandable. I do a rolling boil with the electricty but I imagine gas could be a bit fiercer.
Sometimes I even chuck in a couple of kettles of boiling water towards the end to keep the volume on target.

 

[Desert Brewer]

Hi AW, i have been trying to anwser a similar question with my set up at the moment - i am by no means an expert and have only put down 8 or so brews using a full wort boil - and my evaporation rates have all been very different.

I have been playing around with my water - as we have very hard water in Alice Springs, i have been mixing the tap water with filtered rainwter - it seems the more rainwater the more evaporation - i can only think that this means the softer the water - the harder the boil - the more evaporation. I notice the same thing with my stove top coffee maker - a much faster boil time and more water being put through the coffee with the rainwater - ive got my stove top sorted - but am still struggling with the brew kettle.

I made up two brews last week - Brew 1- (APA style) using about 50 -50 tap and rain water this brew started with 28 litres - 60 min boil - 20 litres in the fermenter. Brew 2 (Larger Style)- 31 litres in the boil 10% tap water - 90% rain water 60 min boil - 20 litres in the fermenter??

Both brews i was aiming for 23 litres - both OGs are within the style and pretty close to the estimated. I hadnt adjusted my set up at all - Italian Spiral Burner - med pressure reg. Both brewed outdoors - almost identical weather conditions ( it is an Alice Springs winter - clear crisp sunny but cool days - no humidity)

The only obvious conclusion that i can see ( in my case ) is the water hardness - but as i say i am no expert - im still trying to work alot of stuff out!

This probably hasnt helped you at all, but - good luck - as i understand your frustration.

Cheers,

DB

 

[matti]

12 litre after a 27L pre-boil volume :blink:

3 things come to mind.

You measured the pre boil volume wrong.

A major leak. (Even small leaks over an hour boil will add up.)

Your have moved/changed the rig/gear and need to recalculate where losses occur.

The evaporation losses should not increase unless you intentionally or unknowingly boiled crap out of the wort.


You mention that "the kettle had a leak but the heat stopped that once it was under way".

I think that is your problem.

The heat would have evaporated any vapour out of the "minor leak" making it hard to detect.
Check the kettle of there are residual wort around the crack/leak.
Get it fixed of just try boiling water to see if you have the same result.

Good luck.

MAtti

 

[arsenewenger]

Yeah Matti the leak is going to be fixed I know where it is but cant be done when full of wort obviously but it will be changed before i use it again.

Just took an OG reading and it is at 1060 so i think i might just add some water to round it up to 20l anyone think that might be a problem?

AW

 

[Frank]

Do not add 8L of water to your wort.
2L, would drop the OG to 1.051, assuming the yeast are not actively fermenting at the moment.

It is a Scottish, so I would leave it at the 12L mark of top quality beer.
Live and learn with your next batch.

 

[arsenewenger]

Well I am ashamed to write this but i did top it up and then pitched theyeast but and this is a huge but without thinking because i was distracted by the kids and other things I chucked the water straight in without boiling it or anything what a comlplete IDIOT :angry: :angry:


Whos knows what will happen now man I am peed off should of held out for a little longer

 

[t2000kw]

Just took an OG reading and it is at 1060 so i think i might just add some water to round it up to 20l anyone think that might be a problem?

That should work just fine. If you "overcooked" your wort and that resulted in the extra loss of wort, the worst that could happen is that you've caramelized your wort a bit more than normal. If it was a leak that caused the loss of wort, then you'll have a weaker beer if you add more water.

If your gravity is a bit high, just dilute it until you reach your target final gravity. That way you'll have what you expected to have in volume or at least in taste, depending on what caused your extra loss of wort.

 

[crundle]

If you have already added the water to bring it up to 20 litres, then leave it at that and ferment it. You could play the game of adding LDME to bring up the gravity, but I think it would be OK to just settle that you may have a Scottish 60 instead of an 80. It will still taste good, but might just be a bit thin. Put it down to experience and look at fixing the issues for the next batch you make. At least you will have a kick a$$ starter for the next one!

I would definitely recommend taking gravity readings pre boil and post boil so that you will get to know your equipment better for future runs, but you will still end up with a nice beer regardless.

cheers,

Crundle

 

[Bribie G]

The tap water should be fine, works for the Kit n Kilo fraternity :icon_cheers: Also as it's a British style ale then 500g of sugar would be well within style and knock up your ABV a tad. I remember as a lad huge tankers of syrup arriving at Scottish and Newcastle.

 

[arsenewenger]

Just thought that myself as i was walking down the shops with my son , it was like hey when i did k&k i used to fill up with tap water so that made me feel good . I am sure it will turn out fine just all the nerves coming out from the first brew in a while.

Did have a taste of the wort from the og reading and it really reminded me of how good an ag beer is I have really missed it . Thanks everyone for the quick advice it has been really helpful will let you know how it turns out

AW