Wheat beer (hefeweizen) tastes a bit thin?

[mr_wibble]

G'day,

This is my 2nd batch of wheat beer now that's tasted a bit thin.
The ester balance is pretty much fine (under-pitching a bit), but I really am after a "fuller" mouth-feel.

The grist was (~26 litre)
3.00kg wheat
0.85kg pilsener
0.85kg vienna
0.30kg caramunich 1
20g hallertauer at 60 mins.
Ferment at 18.5 with Wyeast 3068.

I mashed for 2 hours, starting temp was 69.5 and 2 hours later the esky had dropped to 67.3.

I think my post-boil gravity was a few points low at 1046 - maybe this is the problem - I was aiming for 1.052.
It fermented out to 1.009 => 4.8% AbV.

Suggestions?

ta,
-kt

 

[gaijin]

I'm no expert, but did you use re-harvested yeast? My beers went from epic (1st batch) to barely drinkable (5th batch) from using harvested 3068. Also, I don't usually mash 2hrs for my heffes - 60mins does all conversions I need for a full bodied beer.

In saying that, my yeast harvesting issues were with flavour, not body... but thought I would throw in as an idea anyway.

 

[Reman]

Is it under-carbed? I found even with a dry finish, if the carbing is highish then it makes up for the dryness.

Otherwise maybe aim for more body and a higher final FG, maybe around 1.015. Though your mash schedule should mean should have ended up around there.

 

[simplefisherman]

I've used porridge in wheat beers a few times, 50 to 100g cooked and added at low 60s ( doing step mash ) gives a good body and a nice thick creamy head.

 

[manticle]

Why did you mash for 2 hours?

 

[mr_wibble]

Firstly my apologies for the bad formatting of the post above. The kids have used up all our internets for this month, and at the punitive modem-like speeds we have for the rest of the month means the AHB editing javascripts typically fail to load properly. I did have some carriage-retruns in the post, I don't know where they went.

I mash for two hours because historically I've had difficulty in getting a good conversion with all that wheat.
Of course I could ask the LHBS to double-mill the wheat as has been suggested here, but I just never think of it at the time.
Although I made a dunkelweizen last weekend, and got better than I needed - perhaps I should just tweak the recipe.

It probably is still under-carbed a bit. I'll bump up the pressure on that keg and see if it helps.

cheers,
-kt

 

[pist]

Im no expert on this, however i usually do a 50/50 hef with wheat malt and pils malt. All of these beers that i have done have all been as you described and also lacking in the phenols and esters im chasing. The one thing i don't do that everyone else does with a hef is do a step mash. Based on this i am convinced a step mash is necessary to achieve full conversion when using that much wheat malt

 

[Weizguy]

That's a high mash temp for a Weizen. I normally mash at 63°C and get enough body.
I suggest you check the calibration of your mash temp, with a known accurate thermometer. I used to have a mashmaster thermometer, but it was not very accurate (it was a while ago), and the screws holding the dial were loose.
I stepped up to a full immersion glass thermometer and have not looked back.

I think that is your best starting point, AND cut the sacc rest back to 60 minutes. Oh, and I mill the wheat twice. The first time, by itself, and then in with the rest of the grains.

 

[Jack of all biers]

As Lez has pointed out, it may well be your thermometer. One of mine was 6C + out a year ago and I went back to a glass thermometer since to check. Even after re-calibrating the dial-thermometer it has crept back to 2C out.

I also agree that 69C is too high for your hefeweizen. You will want to do a minimum 55C @ 15 min protein rest then up to max 65C for 60 min then maybe (if you can be bothered) 10 min at 72C. I did one just this last weekend and hit over my calculated OG (calculated 1054 and actual 1062) althougth this was more to do with not calculating my evaporation loss correctly and not sparging enough for the pre-boil. To be honest in tasting the hydrometer sample, it seemed almost too thick (mouthfeel) to me, although I double decocted so this may have had an effect.

Just my recent experience, but food for thought for you anyway.

EDIT - Oh... and a really good tip from Lez above about double crushing your wheat, but if you do you really need to think about adding some rice hulls (250gm should suffice for your recipe) to prevent doughing and stuck sparges.

 

[fraser_john]

normally mash at 63°C and get enough body.

+1

My mash regime for weizen is 61 to 63 over 40 minutes, 20 minutes at 70c followed by mashout. When I want extra phenols, I do single or double decoction, for some reason, in my system/process it really bumps up the perception of phenols, this is not something I typically do.

Weizen is meant to be pretty light on the body. Could it actually be mouthfeel you are lacking? In which case do some research on the effect chloride (CaCl) on mouthfeel.