What to buy next?

[RdeVjun]

Mash vessel heat loss should not present such an insurmountable problem that it requires a drastic re-tool. Various solutions exist such as pre-heating (perhaps what went wrong in the maiden esky batch), adequate insulation, even active control (i.e. electric heating with a controller and recirculation), but generally the lower the volume the less thermal mass acts as a helpful buffer.
Also, continual opening up of the vessel during the mash, usually for stirring and temperature measurement doesn't help either, so rest assured that once you set the mash at the correct temperature, you can close and insulate it, just leaving it be. Maybe opening it up just once around the half- way mark for a stir and measure is adequate and the heat losses should be minimised, usually I will simply leave it be throughout the entire mash.

On kettle sizing, sure 70L offers a great deal of freedom for double batches and so on, but TBH after I bought one a few years ago I've used it twice, invariably I use my 36L kettle nowadays and the big one just collects dust. With the 70L, I already had enough heating capacity in a spiral burner, but that's another factor that needs to be considered in the decision, having an adequate kettle heat source.
If it were me and given a financial constraint, I'd go with a 40L electric urn or stockpot & gas burner, stick with BIAB plus No- Chill. If that 3V infection doesn't clear of its own accord then you can probably use most of this kit to soothe lingering symptoms anyway.

 

[Jack of all biers]

Regarding the op's loss of temp in his esky/pot. Obviously insulation is the key and towels, blankets etc have been mentioned, but do you pre-heat your pot or esky with boiling water for a few mins before chucking and then adding your strike water? I find that when that is forgotten the mass of the mash tun can take a significant amount of heat out of the mash. Especially small mashes like 15 L. What grain to water ratio are you doing? That could be increased from 2 to 3 when using your 30L esky for example. Or if there is a large air gap between your lid and esky lid you can add a layer of insulation onto of your mash before closing the lid. I used to use some thick bubble wrap.

 

[Stouter]

Regarding the op's loss of temp in his esky/pot. Obviously insulation is the key and towels, blankets etc have been mentioned, but do you pre-heat your pot or esky with boiling water for a few mins before chucking and then adding your strike water?

Good point. I remember buying a tea flask a couple years back and it wasn't holding heat overnight. I bit of searching showed other people having the same problem, and the remedy appeared to be pre-heating.

 

[Pataka]

I had never even thought about heating the esky first, but that makes total sense. That's probably where the problem was. That, and there was a lot of air above the wort. When I used the stockpot with blankets, there was a lot less air between the wort and the lid.

At this stage, I'm erring toward a 30L pot (as a brew kettle), the esky as a mash tun, gas burner, and (eventually) wort chiller. I want to cool my brew faster than I am doing at the moment, and after recently reading an article about the risks of botulism with no-chill brewing, I'm not sure I want to take that risk. The only expense initially would be the burner, pot, and a refill for my current gas bottle.

 

[Stouter]

after recently reading an article about the risks of botulism with no-chill brewing, I'm not sure I want to take that risk.

Botulism Shomtulism. Get it in ya!

 

[Red Baron]

I had never even thought about heating the esky first, but that makes total sense. That's probably where the problem was. That, and there was a lot of air above the wort. When I used the stockpot with blankets, there was a lot less air between the wort and the lid.

Pataka- don't bother with pre-heating your esky. Go off what temp your brewing software says for strike water temp, then measure the temp of your mash after a few minutes. The difference from expected mash temp (eg 64deg when you wanted 66deg, therefore 2 deg) is then your adjustment factor to increase your strike water temp for the next and every other time. I used to muck around with boiling a kettle to pre heat, until I figured this out. I have a winter strike water temp and a summer one, because the thermal mass in the esky is different due to the climate.

Definitely eliminate any air space over the wort, as you will loose temp into that. I use a 4cm thick piece of styrofoam covered in allfoil cut to fit my esky. I press it down onto the mash, and don't get much temp drop after an hour.

Hope this helps,
RB

 

[bevan]

And the list goes on.
I got tuned by the missus yesterday about buying too much kit. I pitched the original purchases of the urn and basic gear to her on the logic that I'd be saving money in the long run. I'm just glad I'm not running my own business 'cos the balance sheet would be looking very similar to the W.A government's right now.
I've saved receipts along the way to work it all out and show her, but this is starting to look like a 5 year plan.

I've been getting rid of the receipts as fast as I get them so that I can honestly say "can't remember how much, it was ages ago" Its a pity we don't have the 5th here!

 

[damoninja]

and after recently reading an article about the risks of botulism with no-chill brewing, I'm not sure I want to take that risk.

There is no risk if you pitch within a day or so, the documented risks are not prevalent until approximately 5 days post wort cooling. Personally I don't think it's worth it keeping wort for more than a few days, regardless of how many "ah I do it all the time and I've never died" stories there are, canning guidelines exist for a reason... Would you eat food that had been improperly canned and in theory had a risk of botulinum growth?

Botulinum toxin (H-) is the deadliest toxin known to man.

If you're gonna no chill, just pitch in a day or two.

While the risks are all theoretical and there are no known reported cases 0.0000000001% chance of growth is not even worth it. It could seriously, seriously, seriously, **** your **** up.

 

[Zorco]

What's going on here... Is the whole fresh wort market in strife?

 

[Zorco]

Botulinum toxin (H-) is the deadliest toxin known to man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z35_1e1MtI

https://xkcd.com/1260/

Alrighty,,,,

What thread am I in again....

 

[damoninja]

What's going on here... Is the whole fresh wort market in strife?

Canning guidelines if followed would have wort heated to 120C under pressure. If that doesn't happen, well as I mentioned there's been no documented cases... but that doesn't make it impossible.

http://beerandwinejournal.com/botulism/

 

[barls]

There is no risk if you pitch within a day or so, the documented risks are not prevalent until approximately 5 days post wort cooling. Personally I don't think it's worth it keeping wort for more than a few days, regardless of how many "ah I do it all the time and I've never died" stories there are, canning guidelines exist for a reason... Would you eat food that had been improperly canned and in theory had a risk of botulinum growth?

Botulinum toxin (H-) is the deadliest toxin known to man.

If you're gonna no chill, just pitch in a day or two.

While the risks are all theoretical and there are no known reported cases 0.0000000001% chance of growth is not even worth it. It could seriously, seriously, seriously, **** your **** up.

darren???? is that you?

 

[damoninja]

darren???? is that you?

'tis not

 

[manticle]

Holy ****. This old chestnut.

One documented case of botulism growing in properly prepared no chill wort and I'm buying a really expensive chiller.

Please provide.

 

[malt junkie]

Holy ****. This old chestnut.

One documented case of botulism growing in properly prepared no chill wort and I'm buying a really expensive chiller.

Please provide.

You just want an excuse to buy more bling .... admit it.

 

[pcqypcqy]

I had never even thought about heating the esky first, but that makes total sense. That's probably where the problem was. That, and there was a lot of air above the wort. When I used the stockpot with blankets, there was a lot less air between the wort and the lid.

At this stage, I'm erring toward a 30L pot (as a brew kettle), the esky as a mash tun, gas burner, and (eventually) wort chiller. I want to cool my brew faster than I am doing at the moment, and after recently reading an article about the risks of botulism with no-chill brewing, I'm not sure I want to take that risk. The only expense initially would be the burner, pot, and a refill for my current gas bottle.

There are probably online calculators, but I know for sure that Beersmith calculates the strike water temperature, taking into account the material of the mash tun, the mass, the ambient temperature, etc etc. It was pretty reasonable. I was usually striking low to mid 70's on the way in to settle down for a mid 60's mash using an eski. Worked fine for me.

Check our your local equivalent of Clark Rubber, here they do a black foam product with a foil backing. I wrap it around the sides of my keg MLT, and have bits cut out for the top and bottom. Keeps the temp very stable. Saturday I left off the bottom and over a 2.5 hour mash (got distracted), It only dropped 4 degrees.

 

[damoninja]

Holy ****. This old chestnut.

One documented case of botulism growing in properly prepared no chill wort and I'm buying a really expensive chiller.

Please provide.

As I said as far as I know there aren't any documented cases which have been attributed to botulinum contamination of wort. Naturally, you might expect this to be the case with the amount of actual wort that is prepared with this method...

Pretty well taken for granted, but we do a lot day to day to reduce risks of this sort of thing happening in food. The risk is small, but we still avoid it... ah why bother?

The risk is low but it doesn't mean it's not there
The impact of the risk if it comes to fruition makes it worth avoiding

There's a simple way to avoid the risk - pitch in a day or two...

 

[Stouter]

I'll cross the road to the shops, past all that deadly traffic 'in a day or two' then hey?

 

[Zorco]

damoninja, risk acknowledged. And your effort to represent it is valued mate.

I think that on the balance of probabilities there are much greater risks to health that I'll prioritise.

Having said that, if it is recorded in the journals then I'll take manticle's line and never no-chill again as I will have been well informed. Evidence based approach.

That or pitch within a couple of days of brewing. I'm keen to get a kegmenter which will mean I won't really need to cube from then on.

 

[mckenry]

I dont think its been pointed out yet. Bit a of skim read, but mash efficiency sucks in all rigs when you want to brew big beers. Unless you do a regular mash and top up with extract or other sugars.
Well, maybe not sucks, but decreases. Its the nature of the beast.
Don't be disappointed with your new purchase when it does decrease.