What Next?

[BlackRat]

I have recently completed my first brew (LCPA clone-ish) and now feel the need brew again.
The first attempt was typically a K&K deal with some hops thrown in for good luck.
Its bubbling away nicely in the shed at about 19deg waiting have some Chinook added.

My question is, what do people suggest i should be looking at for my second attempt, keeping in mind, this will be my SECOND attempt!
I'm still looking for a kit type beer, i want to understand step 1 (kit beers) before moving to step 7.

Is there a typical roadmap that new brewers take?

Any suggestions / good recipes you followed when starting out?

All suggestions welcome.

Cheers,
BlackRat.

 

[kelbygreen]

go to step 15!!! set up a herms brewery with 12 kegs in a 700lt kezzer

ok serious! the best brew I done was the coopers euro lager. What went into it?? not sure! By memory it was just the lager kit I would use 80% LDME and 20% dextrose I think I used the kit yeast and fermented low like 15c and left it for 2+ weeks then CC for 5 weeks was crystal clear into the bottles and it carbed up fine in 4 weeks. It was bloody nice! All the K&K and extract I done it was by far the best. Nice clean, not to in your face and was a very good drop. I think the thing that made it work was the time I let it do its thing. I always rush beers and K&K is not a thing to rush

I think thats why I like AG grain to brain in 10 days

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Honestly, you could go to step 7 (BIAB) without much trouble.

As someone who went through the kit to K&K, extract plus bits, AG path. If I'd realised AG was that easy, I'd have skipped the lot and jumped straight in at BIAB.

But... given you said you didn't want that, what I would suggest is find a neutralish kit (such as Cooper's Eurolager kit - something like that). Get hold of the spreadsheet from ianh for K&K beers.

Think of a beer variety you like, and then find a recipe for kit for it in the recipedb that's rated highly.

Punch it into the spreadsheet.

Get an idea of what the bits (whether they are steeped grains, or malt extract) does, and get an idea of what hop additions do (early vs late kettle additions, dry hopping in the fermenter - that sort of thing). Get the concept of what hops add to a beer, what makes a variety of beer unique. Sometimes punching all the ingredients in, then taking away one, to see what it does to the figures (IBU/EBC/OG & FG), before returning it to its place.

Compare the completed product with the BJCP/AABC guidelines for that style.

Honestly, like I said, you could go to step 7, I would have way back then. But if you aren't, use the Kit days for understanding what each ingredient in beer brings to the table - both variety (eg. hops like Saaz vs a hop like Citra; US05 yeast vs W34/70), quantity (100g of Caramunich I vs 200g), and use (steeping Crystal vs using extract malt; boiling hops vs dry hopping; bitterness vs maltiness).

And get yeast health under control, which it appears you may already be doing - no matter what you use, it will always get you the best beer your ingredients will produce.

Goomba

 

[crd0902]

Best one I've done I think was a heritage lager with liquid malt and s-23 yeast. Didn't have a fridge then but kept it cool then let it bottle age for a couple months. No road map just try lots and see what you like. What sort of beer do you normally drink

 

[kario]

Do more Kits! Take your pick...there's mountains of them out there....depending how much you drink, what I did is try them all "as per instruction" then try them again with some additions/replacements to see what effect it has.....meticulous note keeping is your friend!

I started in Dec last year and have brew # 21 fermenting atm. Got a couple more kits to do that I bought in a frenzy and then it's BIAB for me!

Aside from moving to BIAB/AG ASAP....try Neill's Centenarillo Ale ...it's a cracka!
Here's the [topic="35657"]thread[/topic] with lots of pointers...

Don't be afraid of "steeping'...this is the first little (BIG) step to making nice(er) beer.

Here's a favourite Kit friendly recipe for a James Squire Golden Ale Clone

JS Clone - No mash required. 100% Kit friendly.
1 can Thomas Coopers Sparkling Ale
1.5kg pale malt extract (liquid)
15g amarillo at 15mins
15g amarillo at 5mins
15g amarillo (dryhopped at rack).
Kit yeast
23L batch

Ferment at 20C.
1 week primary, 1 week secondary (dry hopped).

For the Hops schedule, boil 4 litres water with approx 400gms of the malt extract, once boiling, add the first addition, 10 mins later add the second addition, then flame out 5 mins after that.

All the best.

I have recently completed my first brew (LCPA clone-ish) and now feel the need brew again.
The first attempt was typically a K&K deal with some hops thrown in for good luck.
Its bubbling away nicely in the shed at about 19deg waiting have some Chinook added.

My question is, what do people suggest i should be looking at for my second attempt, keeping in mind, this will be my SECOND attempt!
I'm still looking for a kit type beer, i want to understand step 1 (kit beers) before moving to step 7.

Is there a typical roadmap that new brewers take?

Any suggestions / good recipes you followed when starting out?

All suggestions welcome.

Cheers,
BlackRat.

 

[iralosavic]

If you want to progress step by step, heres my view:

1. Kit and kilo with included yeast
2. K&k with flavour/aroma/dry hop additions and specialty yeast
3. Unhopped Malt extract with full bittering, flavour and aroma hop additions and specialty yeast
4. Partial - steep specialty grains plus same as 3.
5. Now here's where you could start doing proper mashing, but supplementing with extact, but I'd move to all grain instead. BIAB is the ticket.

Spend some time in 1-3 until you're comfortable. It's wise to stick to kits until organization and sanitation are second nature. Good luck mate.

 

[BlackRat]

Get an idea of what the bits (whether they are steeped grains, or malt extract) does, and get an idea of what hop additions do (early vs late kettle additions, dry hopping in the fermenter - that sort of thing). Get the concept of what hops add to a beer, what makes a variety of beer unique. Sometimes punching all the ingredients in, then taking away one, to see what it does to the figures (IBU/EBC/OG & FG), before returning it to its place.

Compare the completed product with the BJCP/AABC guidelines for that style.

Honestly, like I said, you could go to step 7, I would have way back then. But if you aren't, use the Kit days for understanding what each ingredient in beer brings to the table - both variety (eg. hops like Saaz vs a hop like Citra; US05 yeast vs W34/70), quantity (100g of Caramunich I vs 200g), and use (steeping Crystal vs using extract malt; boiling hops vs dry hopping; bitterness vs maltiness).

And get yeast health under control, which it appears you may already be doing - no matter what you use, it will always get you the best beer your ingredients will produce.

This is exactly why i plan on staying with kit type beers for few more batches. I want to understand how subtle differences (yeast type, hops etc) can have a huge difference in the final product. At the moment i know i have added hops to my brew, but i couldnt tell you what hops they were if i was tasting the beer.

I have the spreadsheet and i also own a copy of beersmith (although i think its a little over my head at this point) and i intend to use both of these to explore flavours and styles.

If you want to progress step by step, heres my view:

1. Kit and kilo with included yeast
2. K&k with flavour/aroma/dry hop additions and specialty yeast
3. Unhopped Malt extract with full bittering, flavour and aroma hop additions and specialty yeast
4. Partial - steep specialty grains plus same as 3.
5. Now here's where you could start doing proper mashing, but supplementing with extact, but I'd move to all grain instead. BIAB is the ticket.

Spend some time in 1-3 until you're comfortable. It's wise to stick to kits until organization and sanitation are second nature. Good luck mate.

This is what im planning on doing. Whilst i do love the idea of becoming an AG brewer, I know spending extra time understanding everything now will have huge payoffs down the track.

Im normally the type to jump into the deep end without testing the water first, but this time i want to take a different approach.

I have done point 1 & 2 above, in iralosavic's list and i do intend to spend some time between 1-3 as suggested.

Thanks for the JS clone recipe kario, i will be sure to try this.

As for other beers, i was thinking of trying an Asahi clone but i dont have a fermenting fridge and read that the yeast must be kept at 10deg for best results. Is this true? What do people use if they dont have a fermenting fridge?

The only other beer i was trying to find was a wit beer. Any highly rated recipes for this style floating about?

Thanks once again for the information everyone.

Cheers,
BlackRat.

 

[RobboMC]

Here's a favourite Kit friendly recipe for a James Squire Golden Ale Clone

JS Clone - No mash required. 100% Kit friendly.
1 can Thomas Coopers Sparkling Ale
1.5kg pale malt extract (liquid)
15g amarillo at 15mins
15g amarillo at 5mins
15g amarillo (dryhopped at rack).
Kit yeast
23L batch

Ferment at 20C.
1 week primary, 1 week secondary (dry hopped).

+1 for this, make s beautiful beer. Consider replacing the pale extract with Wheat extract ( reference here to Dr. Smurto
and his Golden Ale )

And also add 300-500g of Crystal Malt steeped in about a litre of water at 70 deg C for 30 min.
This will get you started on using grain and you'll never brew without grain ever again.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Beermate is free.

 

[iralosavic]

If I were you, op, I'd make my next equipment investment a temperature controller and a suitable fridge or freezer. No point having a nice AG rig if you have no scope for yeast control. Also, while 3. Is great practice for AG in terms of recipe design, it can and often does cost more than AG equivalents!

 

[JaseH]

My first brew was K&K using the kit that came with my fermenter, a Cascade Pale Ale can, some brew enhancer and a hop tea bag. I sat my fermenter in a tub of water with wet towels draped over it. ..meh, was drinkable, after a couple of months of bottle conditioning.

That was the last can I ever bought, I then purchased a cheap fridge, set up temp control and started trying recipes out using LDME + 500gm dex, some specialty grains and a partial boil(<10L) with hop additions. (Hint: I was buying my ingredients online from Craftbrewer - much cheaper than buying locally even with postage).

I then started getting gear together to move to a 3V AG system. The first piece of gear I sorted out was a 50L keggle which, in the meantime, allowed me to do full boil extract batches. My best brew to date was a full boil extract AIPA I did, I find it hard to reach past it to try my other brews at the moment, its mouth-watering! :icon_drool2: Full boil made the biggest difference to my beer so far.

I'm expecting the move to AG to step it up again but will have to wait a week or two until I can crack a bottle of my first AG to find out!

I would highly recommend this path if your keen to get into it, the extract+dex+spec grain+hop boil is the best way to start learning about hops and recipes without diving into AG and hte associated equipment. Try and get something capable of boiling a full batch though - definitely worth it and can be utilised later if you go AG.

 

[DU99]

Could also use Kit And Extract Beer Spreadsheet..try post 91 for the current spreadsheet

 

[BlackRat]

If I were you, op, I'd make my next equipment investment a temperature controller and a suitable fridge or freezer. No point having a nice AG rig if you have no scope for yeast control. Also, while 3. Is great practice for AG in terms of recipe design, it can and often does cost more than AG equivalents!

How do you suggest this is done without a fridge? My garage/shed doesnt have any power and the girlfriend wont let me run an extension lead from the house.

I to agree that this is the next "stage" in assuring better beer consistency/control as this doesnt change regardless if im brewing K&K or AG.

Any ideas?

 

[booargy]

How do you suggest this is done without a fridge? My garage/shed doesnt have any power and the girlfriend wont let me run an extension lead from the house.

I to agree that this is the next "stage" in assuring better beer consistency/control as this doesnt change regardless if im brewing K&K or AG.

Any ideas?

Change the Girl-fiend to a Girlfriend.

 

[iralosavic]

Get a sparky friend to wire up a power point in the shed? There are equally as effective alternatives to using a fridge/freezer, but all require electricity! The only other thing you can do is base what you brew around your weather. Winter is easy - heating only is required, so you could keep your fermenter tucked away in a cupboard with a heat pad under it. In warmer weather, some people report reasonable consistency by loading the bottom of an unpowered fridge up with icepacks.

Personally, if I were you and I wanted to take my brewing seriously, I'd be looking at finding a way to get set up in a location where you have access to electricity and the missues is ok with it. Until then, I'd probably stick to producing ales indoors in wheather where cooling is not required - or look at using yeast strains that are ideally fermented higher. There are some strains that are best done at around 30c and make nice beers too.

My mate who got me into brewing has over 5 years experience more than I do and still can't make a drinkable lager because of his lack of fermentation control! It really is a highly critical step in producing good beer.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Yeast turns sugary malt water into beer. It needs to be treated with respect, care and ideal temps.

Otherwise, it's like putting the wrong oil in your car.

 

[stux]

I would suggest sticking with kits until you get temperature control sorted out.

Then once you know how to run a clean, healthy, controlled ferment, jump into BIAB+no chill

PS: don't forget to aerate the wort!