What Is Your Definition Of Lager?

[matti]

The German word "Lager" means store. I think being a swedish git.
This is some thing the europeans are very good. Since the climate allowed the population in the cold countries learn to store food as well as beer with out refrigeration at an early stage.

Bearing in mind that the Danish who, who despite their Swedish neighbour, came up with the Carlsbergian yeast strain all by them self. Or was it Dutch? Doesn't really matter, since there were not Swedes Aussies or German.

a)The truth of the matter would you call a beer brewed with a lager yeast a true lager?

B) Or would you barrack for a traditional method of lagering with a lager yeast a lager?

C) You Don't really give a damn just brew?

I have feeling most people will reckon "C".

But for those that think there is true definition of type of beer.
Can you please lead me back to the class room? :blink:
cheers

 

[Kai]

I think that if you brew any old beer with a lager yeast and don't lager it, then you'll have a lager but not a terribly good one.

 

[capretta]

i reckon its the yeast (A). lagering was the method which created the yeast that gives the beer the characteristics that it does. i define beer into 2 broad categories, ale and lager. if they invented a new yeast tomorrow with minimal flavour byproducts that ferments at lower temps i would define any beer made with it as a lager..

 

[ale_snail]

for mine

lager is one of 2 beer families.. Lagers and Ales

so beers are either ales or lagers..

even a bitter is defined as a lager..

but i think in australia with the awareness and actual knowledge of beer not very high in the general population the masses see a "lager" as something thats not bitter and smooth.. aka Ted or Boags Premium

and a VB or Melbourne is seen as another type of beer even though in fact it is just a lager with more hops at the start for bitterness..

thats my rant for the day..

anyone understand me?

 

[Adamt]

I see a lager as a beer brewed with a lager yeast at lower temperatures than an ale (i.e. 10-12Cish), which is subsequently "lagered"... i.e cold conditioned.

 

[blackbock]

I too can only see a Lager as a beer that has been brewed in a traditional Lager method, i.e "gelagert"!

Using a lager yeast does not make a beer a lager, just as using bread yeast wouldn't mean you have made bread.

Sure there are certain characteristics which most people (mainly those who don't know much about beer) associate with Lager beer (light colour, light body, low on hops) some of which can occur in Ales, but having one or more of these characteristics does not make a Lager.

 

[bugwan]

So where does Draught fit in? :lol:

 

[Screwtop]

So where does Draught fit in? :lol:

Draught is not a beer style, although some young drinkers think differently. It's an old term for drawing or pulling as in Draught Horse, Draught me some ale wench. Drawing some ale from the barrel. Pretty much for todays description - "from the tap not a bottle".

If you think it's a beer style, your draughting yourself.

Oh, and as far as the poll goes:

1: If the beer is lagered (stored in a cool/cold place) during fermentation then it's a lager. Yeasts strains other than so-called lager yeasts would not work at lagering temps.

2: If it smells like a lager it's a lager

 

[0M39A]

If you think it's a beer style, your draughting yourself.

lmfao!!

I have a lot of mates who are un-educated beer drinkers, and if you ask them their favourite beer style, they will reply 'draught', but be referring to beers like boags draught or carlton draught, not beer off a tap.

They always give me a funny look when i tell them that draught isnt actually a beer style, but just a way of pouring beer, and that its impossible to have a draught beer in a bottle, and that they are just referring to lagers, because then they start saying that they dont like lagers as much.

 

[Wardhog]

Draught is not a beer style, although some young drinkers think differently. It's an old term for drawing or pulling as in Draught Horse, Draught me some ale wench. Drawing some ale from the barrel.

I was just discussing this the other day, and came to the conclusion draught is an ale. Draught would be made with high-volume production and consumption in mind, and as ale production is cheaper, quicker and easier than lager, it fits that draught would be an ale, albeit a lighter one.

 

[ale_snail]

Draught is not a beer style, although some young drinkers think differently. It's an old term for drawing or pulling as in Draught Horse, Draught me some ale wench. Drawing some ale from the barrel. Pretty much for todays description - "from the tap not a bottle".

If you think it's a beer style, your draughting yourself.

Oh, and as far as the poll goes:

1: If the beer is lagered (stored in a cool/cold place) during fermentation then it's a lager. Yeasts strains other than so-called lager yeasts would not work at lagering temps.

2: If it smells like a lager it's a lager

Yeah this is exactly what i was getting at. The population is uneducated on beer styles. So they make up different names which are incorrect.

 

[Wortgames]

I think that the term 'lager' has evolved to mean more that just beer that has been stored. By that logic, wouldn't a Trappist ale that's over a year old have to be reclassified as a lager? Similarly most of the lager you would find these days hasn't been stored for extended periods, but I don't think that means you could call it ale.

An ale is generally brewed in such a way as to encourage yeast character in the beer, and a lager is generally brewed to minimise it. As a result yeast strains are usually specified as ale or lager, depending on what temperature range they give their best results at, the characteristics they impart and where they hang out. The brewer would generally choose an ale or a lager yeast depending on the style of beer they were making, but whether a drinker could necessarily define an ale and a lager in a blind tasting is a different matter - and I think the only criteria they could really use would be 'can I taste the yeast?'.

I don't think that using a 'bread' yeast would mean you've brewed bread, any more than using a 'Kolsch' yeast means you've brewed Kolsch. There's a lot more to a beer style than the type of yeast used. Bread yeast is not necessarily some third category, if it was used in brewing it would most likely be classified as an ale yeast, as it has not evolved to specialise at low temperatures, and presumably it would impart it's own yeasty character on the brew.

I was just discussing this the other day, and came to the conclusion draught is an ale. Draught would be made with high-volume production and consumption in mind, and as ale production is cheaper, quicker and easier than lager, it fits that draught would be an ale, albeit a lighter one.

I guess it would depend on the yeast strain used, the fermentation temperature and the desired flavour profile of the finished beer. While they may be fermented warm, I would say that 'draught' beers are not brewed with yeast character as an intended part of the profile, which may nudge them back into lager territory - or perhaps some middle ground 'hybrid' category reserved for the fringe dwellers like steam beer and Aussie 'draught' (which is perhaps worthy of neither 'ale' nor 'lager' status?)

:beer:

 

[BoilerBoy]

Until I started brewing I didn't know the difference between an ale and a lager and like most of my mates I used them interchangeablely, though I dont recall using the term lager as much.

What I find when giving some people home brew and pointing this out is I often get that smile and shake of the head where they think your just being pedantic and its all rather humouress and tied up with the eccentricity of all grain brewing.....a bit nutty and tragic really.

A comment made to me by one guy though when understanding the difference in style between lager and ale was how he and most people would be completely ignorant of the complexity of beer and the generalizations of a similar nature would be considered a "crime" in the wine industry.

Cheers
BB

 

[ale_snail]

traditionally speaking ales are top fermented and lagers are bottome fermented. But this is another diffference

 

[Screwtop]

Just to drag the subject away from opinion to fact, look up some good texts regarding brewing history and how lagers came about and then became more easy to make all year round once refrigeration was developed in the 19th century.

Check out one on many descriptions of Lager brewing history at Wikipedia

 

[brendanos]

So where does Draught fit in? :lol:

*underrated post.

There's a viking metal band in perth that I see occasionally that wear chain mail, fake blood, carry swords etc and encourage people to join them in drinking "fine ales", whilst they are usually swilling jugs of the cheapest "draught" (generally always both the style and the method) beer available. It secretly grinds my gears. In their defense, local bands very rarely get to choose their rider, and many pubs supporting local music don't even have an ale on tap. Personally, I blame CUB & Lion Nathan.

Draught is my favourite word in the australian/american beer dictionary.

 

[Chris]

I think that if you brew any old beer with a lager yeast and don't lager it, then you'll have a lager but not a terribly good one.

I agree with Kai, there seems to have been a little discussion lately how breweries like CUB dont lager in the tradional way, but these are usually the beers first knocked as being pretty average.

I call it a lager if I used a lager yeast at low temps, then after primary lager it at 0-2 degrees for 2 to 8 weeks.

 

[bugwan]

It seems my draught comment dragged things off topic. Apologies for that.

It was certainly intended with tongue firmly planted in cheek and was more a dig at the general lack of knowledge among the drinking populous than anything else!

 

[tommy cooper]

Draught is not a beer style, although some young drinkers think differently. It's an old term for drawing or pulling as in Draught Horse, Draught me some ale wench. Drawing some ale from the barrel. Pretty much for todays description - "from the tap not a bottle".

If you think it's a beer style, your draughting yourself.

Oh, and as far as the poll goes:

1: If the beer is lagered (stored in a cool/cold place) during fermentation then it's a lager. Yeasts strains other than so-called lager yeasts would not work at lagering temps.

2: If it smells like a lager it's a lager

some funny stuff here could be a great argument as well but the term draught horse > why draught horse? did they pull a draught ?
i was taught that it is actually a "dray" the horses pulled . the barrels sit on a dray and the horses were called "dray horses" in ye olden times and even some of the english history books refering to the first brewery say drays. so i guess that draught horses or dray horses pulled drays and a dray is the wagon thing the beer barrels sat upon .so really the clydesdales draughted the drays. the word draught must mean to pull or draw. i also read an artical on the beer engine invetion it was invented by a farmers son and it has also a reference to draughting the ale from the cask?
oh and i forgot the smiles
opps thread hi jack but some information never the less. :beer:

well i'll get me coat :blink:
tc

 

[NRB]

A.