Weyermann Floor Malted Pilsner - No Conversion

[kevin_smevin]

Hi All.

I got a bag of weyermann floor malted pils malt in the last melbourne grain bulk buy through keg king. Tried to brew a pilsner last weekend and i didn't get any conversion after 2hrs. The mash pH was a little low on this brew (4.95) so i figured that was the reason. I'm trying again today with less acidulated malt. pH is 5.45. Mashed in at 52 for 10 min, ramped up to 63 and have been there for about 1 hour and still no conversion.

I'm using my HERMS to ramp up. Nothing unusual in the recipe; 87.3% pils malt, 8.5% carapils, 4.2% acidulated malt. 100ppm Ca in the mash, about 180ppm so4 and 100ppm Cl.

I can only assume that it is my base malt that is causing the problem. Anyone had a problem with this malt?

Any help appreciated. Pretty annoying when you take a day off work to do a brew and it doesn't work!

 

[fraser_john]

You have any ale malt lying around, maybe it has insufficient enzymes in it, chuck a couple of handfuls of crushed ale malt in and see if you start getting some starch conversion then.

 

[kevin_smevin]

I've just put in 1kg of crushed aussie pils malt. Not sure if it will have enough power to convert the mash. Wait and see i guess.

 

[Bribie G]

I'd do a mini mash and, if that fails as well then definitely contact Cryer Malt to see if they can suggest what the problem is - I'm sure they'd be more than interested in any quality problems with this "Flagship" product. For example I know a brewer who discovered some welding - leftover metal bits in a sack of a UK malt and the Manufacturers were most concerned and got onto it immediately.

I expect they could find out for you the date of the product - does it have a batch no. on the sack?

 

[kevin_smevin]

I'd do a mini mash and, if that fails as well then definitely contact Cryer Malt to see if they can suggest what the problem is - I'm sure they'd be more than interested in any quality problems with this "Flagship" product. For example I know a brewer who discovered some welding - leftover metal bits in a sack of a UK malt and the Manufacturers were most concerned and got onto it immediately.

I expect they could find out for you the date of the product - does it have a batch no. on the sack?

True. I'll have to see if i still have the sack. I may have thrown it away

 

[argon]

I use this malt almost exclusively for lagers and anything with a pilsner base and have never had any problems with conversion.

How are you testing for conversion?... assume iodine test? Check out Braukaiser.com for a quick read up to make sure you're doing everything correctly.

That would really give me the ***** if this was happening to me... good luck with it.

 

[donburke]

I'd do a mini mash and, if that fails as well then definitely contact Cryer Malt to see if they can suggest what the problem is - I'm sure they'd be more than interested in any quality problems with this "Flagship" product. For example I know a brewer who discovered some welding - leftover metal bits in a sack of a UK malt and the Manufacturers were most concerned and got onto it immediately.

I expect they could find out for you the date of the product - does it have a batch no. on the sack?

sorry, of no help to the OP but

does age decay the enzymes to the point of no conversion ?

assuming its been stored properly, how long before you start noticing anything of any consequence ?

 

[amiddler]

A couple of thoughts, following on from 4* do you mean after an hour you test the SG of the wort an it is still 1.000 or close to? No conversion?
I am still not a full bottle on pH but 4.9 to 5.4 you should still see a good conversion, maybe not the best but it should still yeild quite well.

 

[kevin_smevin]

A couple of thoughts, following on from 4* do you mean after an hour you test the SG of the wort an it is still 1.000 or close to? No conversion?
I am still not a full bottle on pH but 4.9 to 5.4 you should still see a good conversion, maybe not the best but it should still yeild quite well.

I'm testing conversion with iodine. Turns blue in the presence of starch. Doesn't change colour if the starches have been converted to fermentable sugars. I am getting some conversion with the extra pils malt i added. Seems the floor malted pils has no diastatic power. Strange

 

[mje1980]

Sounds very strange indeed!

 

[bullsneck]

Captain Obvious here - crushing your grain?

 

[stux]

Have you double-checked your thermometer?

 

[Nick JD]

Maybe you got the sack of grain that was right in the corner of the floor on a little hump, and it didn't get wet...

 

[felten]

I picked up the same malt at the last bulk buy as well and it has been performing exactly the way it should. Very weird.

 

[kevin_smevin]

Maybe you got the sack of grain that was right in the corner of the floor on a little hump, and it didn't get wet...

Yes, grain is crushed. Three separate thermometers are used in the brewery. 1 in the HLT where my strike water comes from (mash in was within a degree of target temp so all seems ok), 1 dial thermo in the mash tun and 1 thermostat temp probe measuring temp of wort returning from HERMS HEX. I think temperature isn't the problem unless all of my thermometers have decided to crack the *****. Oh yeah, i checked the temp with a spirit thermo as well. I also double checked the pH with pH strips and all was where it should be.

After 5 hours of mashing i finally gave up. The 1kg of pils malt i threw in did help but didn't convert everything so i chucked it the whole batch. The wort was the colour of muddy water - delightful.

I've got in touch with keg king and they are chasing up cryer malt with the batch number of the malt.

Thanks for all of your suggestions people. If anyone has any more thoughts i'd love to hear them.

 

[kevin_smevin]

I picked up the same malt at the last bulk buy as well and it has been performing exactly the way it should. Very weird.

Well there goes the hope that it was a problem with the batch. Bugger

 

[manticle]

I bought a sack in the same buy and have used it as both majority base and 100% base and have had no issues with conversion.

Maybe someone put the wrong malt in the sack at the malster?

 

[Parks]

Not something wrong with you Iodine?

 

[Nick JD]

What was the gravity of the wort? My suggestion that there was some that never got malted can't happen as they'd have to mix the entire floor when they kiln it.

 

[Tim]

Did you check the gravity?