Wanted: Electrical Hardware

[pokolbinguy]

G'day folks,

I need to get my hands on a bundle of electrial bits and pieces for my AG setup, and hoping someone on here might be able to help me out.

I need the following:

1 x water proof "inlet" (similar to those used for 3 phase, "male") - Similar idea to the one shown below, but obviously Aus style (you know, they are plastic, usually orange and grey...anyway):



1 x water proof outlet (similar to those used for 3 phase, "fe-male") - Similar to the one shown above, but obviously Aus style and "female"

3 x recessed round power outlets suitable to mount flush with the outside of my control box.

hopfully this make sense to someone more electrical minded.

If so can anyone supply these things for a good price? Or should I just go to my local electrical wholesale place....I assume this could be the pricey way though.

Anyway worth asking.

Cheers, Pok

 

[LethalCorpse]

When you say "Similar to those used for three phase", will you be using three phase power, or single phase? If single, how many watts is your element - ie, do you need 10A, 15A or 20A connections?

 

[pokolbinguy]

When you say "Similar to those used for three phase", will you be using three phase power, or single phase? If single, how many watts is your element - ie, do you need 10A, 15A or 20A connections?

Will be single phase. by "similar" I was just refering to the commonly used switch/point housings that you see in work shops etc...but I want them in 240v.....and would just be "normal" 10A. I'm assuming you understand what I mean. I couldnt find a photo of what Im talking about

I had a leco mate have a look the other day and he said normal 10A stuff will be fine seeing I will not be running mutiple things at once.

Open to suggestions where you think they are needed.

element is something like 3000W.....will that be ok on 10A connections? or should I get 15A+????

Cheers, Pok

P.S. All wiring will be done by a trained electrician....I am only getting the parts. (just covering my arse here)

 

[LethalCorpse]

yup, has to be 15A. 10A only gets you to 2400W, 15A can handle up to 3600W. Might be an idea to include some sort of interlock so your HLT and kettle can't be on at the same time too.

 

[pokolbinguy]

yup, has to be 15A. 10A only gets you to 2400W, 15A can handle up to 3600W. Might be an idea to include some sort of interlock so your HLT and kettle can't be on at the same time too.

What does an "interlock" do? I was not planning to have both running at the same time anway. Was going to have switches on my control box with lights in them to show them "on" so I will only have one running at a time.

So that reminnds me, I will need 4 x swtiches (That also light up when on.) (4 = kettle, HLT, march pump and spare for a light or similar).

Anyway....can you source these "lethalcorpse" ? Or any idea where I should look for a decent price? Any idea what they should cost me?

Hope this all makes some sense,

Cheers, Pok

 

[LethalCorpse]

An interlock is a switch, mechanism or controller that prevents both from being turned on at the same time. A simple DPDT switch will do - connect the supply to a master on/off switch through a fuse, then to the commons/poles of the DPDT, then connect the loads to the two throws of the DPDT. That way you can only turn on one or the other, not both. More elaborate setups using relays, microcontrollers and SCRs are also possible, but the switch'll do. This one will do the job nicely, along with this cover. They also have illuminated switches in the same size and current rating which you could use for the master. You'll need a wholesaler for the outlets/inlets, though it shouldn't be terribly lethal on your wallet. At a pinch you can always just use permanent connections, with a standard 15A mains plug and lead going to the wall.

You will need the sparky to replace your 10A outlet with a 15A one, assuming you haven't already got one, which will hurt more. I can't recall if 15A plugs fit 20A sockets, but if they do, find out if it'd be any more expensive to get a 20A one put in instead, will give you more headroom for upgrades later. Three phase is probably prohibitive, you're operating under the same sort of budget as I am.

Just reread your last post. You can do a four way interlock by daisy chaining switches. Power comes in on the commons, one throw goes out to the load, second throw goes to the common on the next switch. That way the first load has to be turned off for the second to get power. You'll probably want to be able to power your march pump at the same time as an element though, so maybe just use the interlock for the two. If that's not clear I'll knock up a diagram when I've had some sleep. BTW, you don't need big ugly connectors for the pump and aux outlets, cheaper 10A ones will be fine. It might also pay to run them off a separate 10A outlet if that's feasible, so you don't have to worry about pushing the 15A limit.

EDIT: don't let him convince you that 10A will be fine for a 3kW element plus extras. If it starts a fire, it's your arse not his.

 

[pokolbinguy]

You will need the sparky to replace your 10A outlet with a 15A one,

Thanks for all the info "LC". When replacing with a 15A outlet will the wiring need replacing???? that could be damn problematic.

Cheers, Pok

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

A 15Amp cct will need a new dedicated wire from the switch board to your outlet.

If you want the bits, just go to TLE/ Laurance & Hansen/ Cetnaj ($$$) and have a look in their clipasl catalog. You just need to work out what you need from the book, as it is full of pics of all the hardware. You will be able to get everything rated for water splashing etc......


Just beware that the catalog will dazzle you with all its offerings...


http://updates.clipsal.com/ClipsalOnline/G...ode=02&ref=

http://updates.clipsal.com/ClipsalOnline/G...earch.aspx?ref=

 

[pokolbinguy]

A 15Amp cct will need a new dedicated wire from the switch board to your outlet.

Dammit!!

 

[kabooby]

You could get him to install the 15A outlet in the switchboard and than make up a 15A lead to run out on brew day.

15A lead could be made up with 15A plugs and sockets and 2.5mm orange circular

Might be cheaper

Kabooby

 

[pokolbinguy]

You could get him to install the 15A outlet in the switchboard and than make up a 15A lead to run out on brew day.

15A lead could be made up with 15A plugs and sockets and 2.5mm orange circular

Might be cheaper

Kabooby

Hmm that is a good idea....however if I put the stand in the garage (where I utimatley want to) the lead would have to be about 15-20m long.

Anyway all food for thought. Damn big are element.

What have others done? or should i not ask

Cheers, Pok

 

[LethalCorpse]

might not need to replace the wiring, but will need a dedicated wire run and circuit breaker. depends what the existing setup is like and how helpful your sparky is. The requisite parts aren't expensive though, so if this is a mate who's helping you out for beer, it might not be too drastic

 

[pokolbinguy]

might not need to replace the wiring, but will need a dedicated wire run and circuit breaker. depends what the existing setup is like and how helpful your sparky is. The requisite parts aren't expensive though, so if this is a mate who's helping you out for beer, it might not be too drastic

Well the control box has a circuit breaker already in it so that should solve the problem yes??? and the mate I have known since we were 7 so getting him to do it isnt a problem...but beer is good payment anyway.

Anyway keep up the good info

Cheers, Pok

 

[LethalCorpse]

Well the control box has a circuit breaker already in it so that should solve the problem yes??? and the mate I have known since we were 7 so getting him to do it isnt a problem...but beer is good payment anyway.

Anyway keep up the good info

Cheers, Pok

I'm afraid not, no. a 15A outlet needs its own breaker in your fusebox. Unfortunately the rules changed recently - I think if the job had been quoted before new years and completed before the other week you could have 10A outlets on the same run so long as their typical usage was low, ie he could probably just replace the outlet with a 15A one. Not any more though, it needs to be dedicated. Your sparky mate should be more familiar with AS3000 than I am though, and know what he needs to do to hook it up and sign off on it.

 

[pablo_h]

might not need to replace the wiring, but will need a dedicated wire run and circuit breaker. depends what the existing setup is like and how helpful your sparky is. The requisite parts aren't expensive though, so if this is a mate who's helping you out for beer, it might not be too drastic

Yeah, the problem isn't the wiring, standard wiring is 2.5mm^2 which will handle 16amp safely. The problem is that your whole power circuit is fused or has a rated circuit breaker at 16A. Which means if you are on single phase, you couldn't run anything elctrical in your house on at the same time you use this heater without a fuse blow/cb trip. Hence the need of having it on it's own separate circuit, but not necesarily needing a wiring upgrade.

 

[pokolbinguy]

I'm afraid not, no. a 15A outlet needs its own breaker in your fusebox. Unfortunately the rules changed recently - I think if the job had been quoted before new years and completed before the other week you could have 10A outlets on the same run so long as their typical usage was low, ie he could probably just replace the outlet with a 15A one. Not any more though, it needs to be dedicated. Your sparky mate should be more familiar with AS3000 than I am though, and know what he needs to do to hook it up and sign off on it.

Okey doke well I shall have a chat to him and work it out. Wish I didnt put such a damn big element in now

Pok

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

It SHOULD be a dedicated circuit ....BUT...AS3000 basically sort of states that it is up to the protection device, and the load rating of the cable....I have AS/NZS 3000:2000...its a fantastic read...


Just go with a dedicated 15A cct....proper rated extension leads are not illegal, as long as they have proper protection and current carrying ability ...but they are always the worst alternative

Just go with a dedicated 15A cct...

And you wont get into trouble...

 

[pokolbinguy]

Just go with a dedicated 15A cct...

The problem lies with the fact that I'm 22....living at home and will eventually (next year or so) move out of home and will be taking the brewery with me. (again....should have used a smaller element...or gas ...O well...such is life)....and also at the family house at the moment the brewery is located on the verandah and will hopefully be in the garage soon (involves a bit of house building to empty it of building materials).

Hmmm damn AG brewery....why did I have to make it so damn complicated

Back to the drawing board somewhat.

Pok

 

[LethalCorpse]

Yeah, the problem isn't the wiring, standard wiring is 2.5mm^2 which will handle 16amp safely. The problem is that your whole power circuit is fused or has a rated circuit breaker at 16A. Which means if you are on single phase, you couldn't run anything elctrical in your house on at the same time you use this heater without a fuse blow/cb trip. Hence the need of having it on it's own separate circuit, but not necesarily needing a wiring upgrade.

Not the whole house, just that circuit, which might just be one other point in the garage, or might be half the house. Previously, if it was the former, and it wasn't used often or for high loads (like a garage power point if you don't have many 2kW tools) the wiring rules allowed the user to make that determination. Now, it has to be wired so that you can't put too big a load on.

Pok, don't stress too much about it, just get your mate to assess it and work out what he needs to do to put a 15A point in for you. Your comment that you should've used a smaller element would mean less electrical hassles, but would also take forever to get to mash temps, and then to get to boil. I'd argue that you should be using a bigger element, because if you've got to go to all the hassle of getting your power upgraded, you might as well be using as much of that power as you can, ie, go for a 3500W element.

If the plan is to move into the garage as soon as you can clean it out, then now's the time to do it. If you could get up and running first then you should, but if you'd have to repeat the power point upgrade later, then now's the time to get the workgloves out.

 

[schooey]

Dude... I bought the 20A breaker, mount for the fusebox, the 15 metres of cable and the 15A powerpoint and mounting plates I used for my brewery outlet from Davis and Spence for less than $50. Your lecco mate can probably get it for less, and if he's doing the wiring for nix, you're already out of it on the cheap