Want To Start A Brewery Anyone?!

[Pug]

I was speaking to the guys at IBS here in Sydney the other week and was told that around $200K could get you all brewing equipment you need to start your own little micro brewery. I was stunned! Thought it would have been hundreds of thousands more than that? I was going to suggest that maybe some members would like to all chip in and start one in their "spare" time? Obviously there would have to be a premises found for it but, if anyone has a spare shed and a very understanding wife, I'd certainly be interested in putting some cash into it! Thought I'd put it out there. Food (or drink) for thought as they say.........

 

[haysie]

I was speaking to the guys at IBS here in Sydney the other week and was told that around $200K could get you all brewing equipment you need to start your own little micro brewery. I was stunned! Thought it would have been hundreds of thousands more than that? I was going to suggest that maybe some members would like to all chip in and start one in their "spare" time? Obviously there would have to be a premises found for it but, if anyone has a spare shed and a very understanding wife, I'd certainly be interested in putting some cash into it! Thought I'd put it out there. Food (or drink) for thought as they say.........

Must have great marketing background. The beer wont do it alone.

 

[Thommo]

AHB Co-op Brewery? Could be a goer. But who's recipes would be brewed?


I have a VB clone I think is pretty close... :icon_vomit:

 

[roller997]

I am sure if the beer is good enough and you can get access to some premises for direct sales you could do allright.

The challenge is that for $200K I don't think you get a complete setup with a reasonable sized brewhouse. Did you get any ideas on what is included and how big the setup would be?
I talked to someone in the trade some time ago and he was quoting $100K for just a small 500 liter chinese brewhouse, without fermenters, glycol chilling setup and no bottling or keg cleaning equipment, let alone kegs or serving tanks.

I only spent a little time looking around when I was more serious about such a venture and the cheapest for a 2 year old brewery (capable of pushing out 2000 liters per shot) for 230,000 Euro plus delivery from the Czech Republic plus installation. This included everything from milling to a bottling & labelling machine.
I haven't seen anything close to that in terms of decent capacity for a german made setup. Capacity could have been increased with additional fermenters and that kit would have been more advanced than what some of the larger micro breweries run in Melbourne.

 

[Swinging Beef]

I know a commercially successful brewery that cost under $10k.
Labor intensive, but it is growing.

 

[pbrosnan]

I am sure if the beer is good enough and you can get access to some premises for direct sales you could do allright.

The challenge is that for $200K I don't think you get a complete setup with a reasonable sized brewhouse. Did you get any ideas on what is included and how big the setup would be?
I talked to someone in the trade some time ago and he was quoting $100K for just a small 500 liter chinese brewhouse, without fermenters, glycol chilling setup and no bottling or keg cleaning equipment, let alone kegs or serving tanks.

I only spent a little time looking around when I was more serious about such a venture and the cheapest for a 2 year old brewery (capable of pushing out 2000 liters per shot) for 230,000 Euro plus delivery from the Czech Republic plus installation. This included everything from milling to a bottling & labelling machine.
I haven't seen anything close to that in terms of decent capacity for a german made setup. Capacity could have been increased with additional fermenters and that kit would have been more advanced than what some of the larger micro breweries run in Melbourne.

You know, Dogfish Head started with a 50L Sabco system They did 3 brews a day. I don't know why anyone would throw 200K into brewing equipment when a serviceable 100L system could be fabricated for a 10th of that.

 

[cooperplace]

You know, Dogfish Head started with a 50L Sabco system They did 3 brews a day. I don't know why anyone would throw 200K into brewing equipment when a serviceable 100L system could be fabricated for a 10th of that.

Last time I spoke about this to Alan Dikty in Chicago, he said he can get the complete brewery for quite a lot less than that, including a really good bottling line. But he also says "any fool can make great beer, it's marketing, marketing, marketing that counts" or words to that effect. He's also big on business plans.

Alan knows the microbrew business better than almost anyone on the planet, and is a very nice guy. if you're serious it would be worth talking to him. He's at [email protected]

Re the 50l Sabco system, remember that in a lot of microbrew startups, brewmaster exhaustion is a big problem. Alan says a microbrewery needs at least 15bbl US (I think about 1700 litres) brewing capacity to be viable. When I pointed out that Three Floyds was (at the time) only 5bbl, he pointed out that the owner's father-in-law was a billionaire.

Peter.

 

[HoppingMad]

Dreaming is good. I do it often on this very subject.

For some great inspiration, as someone mentioned - look to Dogfish Head who started small. Get yourself a copy of 'Brewing Up A Business' by Sam Caligione (The Dogfish Founder). It's a ripper book with loads of ideas for a startup brewery, and some hard lessons learned along the way.

Also realise as others have said that it's not just about making the stuff. Someone has to sell it. Sam Caligione is an excellent salesperson and travels the US educating people about craft beer and hosting beer and food dinners. Kooinda which is a startup here in Melbourne has their guys out at tastings and beer shows spruiking their stuff. These things aren't as glamourous as sitting around shiny vessels and making it, but if you want to get the stuff to where the money is - it's a necessary evil.

Either that, or get yourself a buddy that can sell ice to eskimos!

Good luck,

Hopper.

 

[roller997]

Fully agree that dreaming is good.
While I have the book Brewing up a Business as well as The US Brewing Industry as well as my favourite of the three so far Satarting your Own Brewery (which is an eye opener on some fronts), it would not be very common to start with a small Sabco system and become a viable microbrewer. The transition from a 50 liter system to a 2000 liter system is very expensive and since the GFC, banks have become more hesitant at lending money.

At the end of the day it comes down to your definition of a successful / viable brewery.
For some folks, they may not mind spending 12-14 hours per day and often 7 days per week to make an hourly rate equivalent or less than the checkout girl at Coles because it permits them to pursue a love for brewing. There is nothing wrong with that and I take my hat off to these folks. Bear in mind that if this is your dream, then you probably just need to make minor upgrades to your current setup and polish your sales skills. The transition as demand increases would be hard as you would basically have to invest big $$$'s to get to a system that you don't need to upgrade again in a few months.
For others it might be a setup that they build up as a business which has some room for growth if the product becomes successful which may ultimately provide them with an income stream at retirement or a lump sum if they sell the business. This requires some careful planning (including a business plan), some decent sales skills and at some stage marketing.
Neither are wrong but different people have different approaches, both of which produce good beer.

Is it possible to find out what was included in the $200K

Regards

Roller

 

[petesbrew]

AHB Co-op Brewery? Could be a goer. But who's recipes would be brewed?


I have a VB clone I think is pretty close... :icon_vomit:

VB? Pft. We could make a killing on toucan stout.
A good can opener shouldn't be too expensive.

 

[alowen474]

VB? Pft. We could make a killing on toucan stout.
A good can opener shouldn't be too expensive.

You'd just have to get a really big one!!

 

[kevin_smevin]

Fully agree that dreaming is good.
While I have the book Brewing up a Business as well as The US Brewing Industry as well as my favourite of the three so far Satarting your Own Brewery (which is an eye opener on some fronts), it would not be very common to start with a small Sabco system and become a viable microbrewer. The transition from a 50 liter system to a 2000 liter system is very expensive and since the GFC, banks have become more hesitant at lending money.

At the end of the day it comes down to your definition of a successful / viable brewery.
For some folks, they may not mind spending 12-14 hours per day and often 7 days per week to make an hourly rate equivalent or less than the checkout girl at Coles because it permits them to pursue a love for brewing. There is nothing wrong with that and I take my hat off to these folks. Bear in mind that if this is your dream, then you probably just need to make minor upgrades to your current setup and polish your sales skills. The transition as demand increases would be hard as you would basically have to invest big $$$'s to get to a system that you don't need to upgrade again in a few months.
For others it might be a setup that they build up as a business which has some room for growth if the product becomes successful which may ultimately provide them with an income stream at retirement or a lump sum if they sell the business. This requires some careful planning (including a business plan), some decent sales skills and at some stage marketing.
Neither are wrong but different people have different approaches, both of which produce good beer.

Is it possible to find out what was included in the $200K

Regards

Roller

One of the lecturers at the Ballarat uni course said to turn a profit you need to sell over 100 000L of beer a year. Thats a lot of beer

 

[Sammus]

also there's the whole liquor license thing, I reckon that'd add a fair bit to the cost...probably outweigh the cost of the brewery; I think it's a periodic expense.

 

[antains]

VB? Pft. We could make a killing on toucan stout.

Now's my time to shine!

 

[Fents]

yer 200k for a system nice. someone forgot to mention the other costs involed. you have to have a premise's (rent or buy?), tanks calibrated, excise, liquor license, exhaust fans, cleaning chemicals, malt, hops, deliverys, signage and thats just the tip of the iceberg. Then you have to make beer so either give up your day job and earn nothing for a while or kiss your weekends goodbye for the rest of your life. sorry if it sounds jaded, its not but buying a 200K or even a 100Litre sabco system dosnt just cut it, there is soooo much more.

 

[cooperplace]

also there's the whole liquor license thing, I reckon that'd add a fair bit to the cost...probably outweigh the cost of the brewery; I think it's a periodic expense.

Many potential microbrewers get hung up on equipment and recipe issues, ie the issues affecting the homebrewer. These will be the least of your problems. Bigger problems, ie, more expense, will lie in:

*premises
*licences, taxes, excise, etc, etc, (the list is never-ending)
*loss of income during the startup period -this means however long it takes for the business to start making enough profit to pay a good wage, could be years
*marketing, marketing, marketing and all that is entailed.

The Ballarat Uni lecturer's estimate of sales to be viable sounds accurate to me.

An interesting exercise is to add up ALL the costs that go into a slab of beer: margins are low.

This is not for the faint of heart and I have the greatest admiration for everyone who succeeds in the microbrewery business.

Peter.

 

[Kleiny]

One of the lecturers at the Ballarat uni course said to turn a profit you need to sell over 100 000L of beer a year. Thats a lot of beer

I also remember some timely words:"why would you want to turn a great hobby into a day job that wrecks the hobby forever"

Unless you are a great marketing guru and make a decent $$ the daily grind may just wreck the best pastime you've ever had.

Anybody can buy some gear but the endless paper work and dealing with sections of council, taxation and government may just give you a hatred for a once loved hobby. Its not just brewing its the 10-14hr days + nights + weekends pushing and distributing your product within a marketplace where most pubs and clubs are contracted to major companies who dont like having there sales % cut.

Of course some have done it and still love it but a lot of brewery's fail just look to the USA and remember you will be small business and there are plenty of facts out there about new small business failure rates.

That's all a bit negative but i would expect it to be reality vs dream-time. I know i dream alot about the same only to be grounded by the negatives that seem to creep in every now and then.

By the way its still probably a plan of mine to open an mega successful brewery based on good product and a community passion or why else would i be doing a uni course on brewing and malting.

Kleiny

 

[Fatgodzilla]

I also remember some timely words:"why would you want to turn a great hobby into a day job that wrecks the hobby forever"

Unless you are a great marketing guru and make a decent $$ the daily grind may just wreck the best pastime you've ever had.

........... By the way its still probably a plan of mine to open an mega successful brewery based on good product and a community passion or why else would i be doing a uni course on brewing and malting.

Kleiny

the point of commercial brewing is to sell your product. There are two types of markets - external (to pubs/clubs/retail bottles) and internal - sell your beer on your premises. The former requires a good product, excellent marketing and volume sales. The latter needs a premise with a large customer turnover. Obvious potential premises will be to own your own pub (costly) a restuarant / nightclub or at a vineyard with cellar sales. One such winery on the south coast now makes a beer sold through the cellar door and seems to be doing okay, though his setup is micro in every sense. And hand bottling. I'm sure there are plenty of examples around.

There is also your definition of mega successful!

But the market is expending. So for one in 1,000 dreamers, one realist will have a go. For 1 in 100 realists, one will be mega successful, a few will be successful and the bulk will get their arses kicked for any number of reasons - but at least they tried. (Alls statistics plucked from my arse like every good beer I have brewed). :icon_cheers:

 

[brettprevans]

all good points above. plus the fact that asutralia has become a shitehouse place to startup and run a small business. esp one where there is extra tax involved (so not only business tax, income tax but then excise tax, etc.).

you've got to have some money to loose or keep you afloat or your gambling big time.

but thats being said, if I could turn this hobby into a job, i would. although most likely my involvement in microbreweries will be putting my hard work in corporate governance etc to use in their business' (ie directorships etc).

VB? Pft. We could make a killing on toucan stout.
A good can opener shouldn't be too expensive.

megaswillers out there wouldnt know the differance. may as well have 2 lines... microbrew and megaswill.

 

[Fatgodzilla]

all good points above. plus the fact that asutralia has become a shitehouse place to startup and run a small business. esp one where there is extra tax involved (so not only business tax, income tax but then excise tax, etc.).

Fantastic place to set up a small business - if you are an accountant! phsstt.. anyone want to buy a used accountancy business in Tuross Head? Going cheap ..


And if anyone wants to go into the brewery business, call me first. ! Best alcoholic home brewing accountant in town!