VB Clone

[JoshAsh]

I know this has been asked before and laughed at ('go piss in a bottle and force carbonate')... but how much sugar would be in the avg aussie beer like vb per 25 litres? would it be white sugar or raw sugar?
I want to brew an improved vb or xxxx so my mates finally say my beer is good. I am sick of hearing them talk up the merits of xxxx gold.

 

[bradsbrew]

20-30%

 

[WarmBeer]

85% Pils malt
5% Carapils
10% Sugar (of the "Table" variety)

Single addition of P.O.R. at 60 mins to 30 IBU's

Ferment with Danish Lager @ 12 degrees , or US-05 @ 15 deg

 

[JoshAsh]

cheers

 

[Tony]

I used to work in a plant that made glucose from wheat starch for fosters or Carlton...... one of them.

Dextrose is made the same way, but with the glucose they could specify the viscosity and ferment-ability of the product.

I doubt very much they use cane sugar, but i could be wrong.

:icon_offtopic:

Interesting fact........... caramel colour used to darken cola drinks and many other things, is made from cane sugar, dissolved in water and cooked at 200+ deg while injecting hydrochloric acid and ammonia. It has a pH of about 2.7 and eats holes in your clothes..... which is why i don't drink cola drinks

 

[WarmBeer]

Interesting fact........... caramel colour used to darken cola drinks and many other things, is made from cane sugar, dissolved in water and cooked at 200+ deg while injecting hydrochloric acid and ammonia. It has a pH of about 2.7 and eats holes in your clothes..... which is why i don't drink cola drinks

Just look what it did to your teeth.

 

[Tony]

Na that was all the Tooheys New i drank before starting brewing.

 

[slash22000]

For the authentic bottle shop VB experience make sure you leave it in a tin shed >30ºC for a couple of months before you drink it. Made fresh it might actually be almost drinkable.

 

[Tony]

Hang on........ are you AG or K+K ???

 

[Bribie G]

When they say 30% sugaz, that's not sugaz by weight, that's the percentage that they contribute towards the actual gravity of the beer. You'll need something like brewmate to work out the quantities.

When home brewed an Aussie lager can actually be quite pleasant and drinkable, possibly because you are drinking it fresh rather than filtered, pasteurised, and trucked hundreds of ks.

Nothing hard about it - it's industrial six o'clock swill stuff for the masses but its simplicity actually gives it a fairly clean profile. The trick is to use the Danish Lager Yeast, start it at around 13 degrees then let it rise to 19 and finally lager at -1 degrees for ten days only. If CUB ever have yeast problems they phone Copenhagen immediately. Figure.

Basic Aussie Lager
Australian Lager

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 23.0
Total Grain (kg): 4.500
Total Hops (g): 25.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.049 (°P): 12.1
Final Gravity (FG): 1.010 (°P): 2.6
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 5.09 %
Colour (SRM): 2.8 (EBC): 5.5
Bitterness (IBU): 23.5 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 75
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

Grain Bill
----------------
4.000 kg Pilsner (88.89%)
0.500 kg Cane Sugar (11.11%)

Hop Bill
----------------
25.0 g Pride of Ringwood Leaf (8.3% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (1.1 g/L)

Misc Bill
----------------

Single step Infusion at 64°C for 120 Minutes.
Fermented at 13°C with Wyeast 2042 - Danish Lager


Recipe Generated with BrewMate

edit: good 20 min mashout at 78

 

[Charst]

Vic's a little darker than you'd get off straight pils isn't it Bribie?

 

[labels]

When Galaxy malt went off the market for a couple of years, I bought a bag of BB ale malt and made a lager. FMD! it was almost identical to Carlton Draught. I researched the history of Aussie lagers after that beer and the conclusion is,

Prior to refrigeration, the beer brewed in Australia were all ales. When refrigeration became commercially available and the trend in Europe turned to lagers at around the same time, the brewers here started brewing lagers BUT stuck to the the same malt source and recipe formulations they had always used.

This makes Aussie lagers somewhat unique. Use an ale type recipe, ale malt and a (primarily) ale type hop but brew it as a lager. Don't use pilsner malt, you will get closer to Pure Blonde styles of beer, use an ale malt and BB ale malt is a good one, POR to about 20ibu single addition only and Wy 2042 (very neutral). Sugar is optional, it will thin the body and increase alcohol but my Carlton clone was an all-malt beer and was incredibly close to Carlton.

And don't listen to others who knock Aussie lagers, as brewers we all appreciate the stunning array of beers available, craft, English and German imports and other specialties but that's why we brew. Successfully cloning an Aussie commercial lager is a great accomplishment that most here would secretly like to succeed at.

-=Steve=-

 

[JoshAsh]

AG... they say 30% fermentables... but as you say it's not by pure weight, and i've no idea how to work it out in beersmith
so you'd just dump the sugar in during the boil then i guess ... by the sounds of it dextrose would be preferred..(?)

Cheers for the advice - I'd like to know about thinning lagers out..
the current complaint is that my beer's too thick bodied compared to VB/XXXX

 

[Tony]

Dextrose will thin it out.

To get a bit of colour in there use some caramalt

 

[labels]

AG... they say 30% fermentables... but as you say it's not by pure weight, and i've no idea how to work it out in beersmith
so you'd just dump the sugar in during the boil then i guess ... by the sounds of it dextrose would be preferred..(?)

Cheers for the advice - I'd like to know about thinning lagers out..
the current complaint is that my beer's too thick bodied compared to VB/XXXX

If you aim for a 63C mash for a good 90 minutes and an OG of 1.045 you won't end up with a beer that has too much body. Example: German pilsner is not thick bodied and they do not use any sugar. You will be very disappointed using 30% sugar. You should concentrate on getting your mash right to produce a very fermentable wort, unfortunately, adding lots of sugar does not counter an incorrect mash, does not get rid of long chain sugars - polysacharides and other unfermentables. Only a carefully controlled mash does the job.
-Steve

 

[JoshAsh]

Its highly possible I've got issues with mash temperature.
for lagers i always aim for 62-65 and a long mash but my lagers are always a lot thicker than commercial lagers.. its hard to keep an exact temperature with the drink chiller.. i would generally be topping up halfway through with hot water to maintain 62 for 90 minutes..

and should you do a step mash or a mashout at 72 when aiming for thin beer?

 

[slash22000]

Commercial lagers use shitloads of sugar, as has already been said. There are other ways to thin the body, as Labels says, but VB etc use sugar. It's cheap and easy.

 

[MastersBrewery]

I would have thought 72 too low for mash out, more toward 78 as stated above as I understand it. ( someone feel free to flame me if I'm way out here)
Edit: though a good rest at 72 will give you a nice lacey head

 

[labels]

Its highly possible I've got issues with mash temperature.
for lagers i always aim for 62-65 and a long mash but my lagers are always a lot thicker than commercial lagers.. its hard to keep an exact temperature with the drink chiller.. i would generally be topping up halfway through with hot water to maintain 62 for 90 minutes..

and should you do a step mash or a mashout at 72 when aiming for thin beer?

I neither step-mash nor mashout. Just a single infusion for 90 mins squarely in the Beta-Amylase territory. Mash temperature and maintaing it is the key and I would look at fixing your system so you can achieve it if you want to make lager beer. Also your grain bill, don't load it up with crystal malts etc. You can add maybe 2-3% crystal but no more and certainly no body builders like Carapils, unmalted grains etc. As I said, adding lots of sugar is not a way out, you need much tighter control on your mash.

And just wait until you come to the temperature regime during fermentation/lagering !

Steve

EDIT: I have exactly the opposite problem, trying to keep body in the beer and I don't use any sugar or adjuncts for most of my beers, 100% malt!

 

[milestron]

What is the point though? If I make a burger at home I don't try to 'clone' McDonalds