Using The Hot Tap For Mash Water

[stux]

I use a solar system to stainless tank (no anode) with gas instantaneous boost.

Works brilliantly for filling BIAB, never noticed and issue.

In the past I've filled spa pools with the 'infinite' hot water

 

[punkin]

I've run an offtake before the temper valve on my Solar Hot Water System and a line underground to my brewing shed. I get water anywhere from 65C to 85C straight from the tap depending on the weather heated for virtually free. B)

 

[milob40]

I remember reading up on this a bit trying to find an answer and the general consensus seemed to be if it is a continuous hot water system it should be fine, if it is a tank, maybe not.
I used to use my continuous hot water system and didnt notice any detrimental effects, now I just use an electrical timer and stc-1000 to preheat the strike water while I sleep (as I use an undersink carbon filter now)

you hit the nail on the head. instantaneous is ok but storage is a no no especially if it has a hardwater sacrificial anode in it... this is made out of aluminium
and is designed to erode (ends up in the water) before you steel glass lined tank does. other anodes can be a combination of zinc/magnesium.
aluminium especially is no good for you . these anodes should be checked and replaced every so many years but most people aren't even aware they exist.

 

[Dave70]

There's some valid science behind not using hot water from the tap for anything other than washing. A lot of it stems from American research based around the good old days when plumbers used lead pipe and soft solider (contains 50% lead, 50% tin) to make the joints. These are now banned for potable water. Plus the fact that chemicals are more easily dissolved in hot water.

In saying that, I've used hot tap water in every brew I've ever done, it's just to much of a time / gas saver. The bottom line with any ingested toxin is the dosage. To that end, if the, at best, trace elements of nasties going into your mash via the HWS are giving you cause for concern, then remember that ethanol is listed by the American Cancer Society as a Group 1 carcinogenic to humans) toxin.
In other words, that RIS, Belgian strong ale or head banging IPA pose a vastly more serious threat to your well being than some microscopic floaties from your hot water tank.
Storm in a mash tun really.

 

[1974Alby]

I have a gas hws..but it does have a tank. There is no clear consensus emerging from ths thread...seems plenty of people do it..it saves time and effort and doesnt seem to affect the beer. But others give health warnings and suggest water from a tank is no good...Thanks for your post Milob40, provided a bit of reasoning to support the vague notion that it probably wasnt recommended!

 

[Cocko]

do you then add your grist to the water as opposed to adding your water to your grist?
edit : thats directed at you cocko

Yep, add the grist to the water.

If you have an, over the side style, immersion element, than why not heat your strike water in your MT? makes sense to me.

:icon_cheers:

 

[Murdoch]

As a Plumber we were taught that HWS water was non-potable (not fit for human consumption)
As pointed out previously there can be be a high mineral content from corrosion
& after changing many of them it is not unusual to get a 10L bucket of crap & sludge out of them when draining
If the temp control is poor then there is also a bacterial risk as well
You may well argue that its going to be boiled anyway
But to me it would be similar to using brackish water from a puddle ...... it`ll work, but its not really ideal

 

[bignath]

Another HWS user here.

Used to be cold water and heat, but my heating capabilities at that time were not as good, and used to take me way too long to knock out a batch of beer.

Once my brewery is set up, im doughing in 10mins later. Too easy.

Not noticed any detrimental effects.

 

[iralosavic]

I'm pretty sure I've got a continuous supply as I've never seen a tank (rental). I can't figure out how to crank up the heat output though as it seems to be a sealed unit! Hmm Maybe I'll take a photo. Currently, our tap water runs at a lazy ~40c. Not even warm enough to make you uncomfortable.

 

[pk.sax]

Our last hws failed because of leaks in the tank due to corrosion.
Guess what was going into the water?
Also, hot water dissolves more and has more energy, the labyrinth of pipes it will travel through gives it heaps of time to scrape/dissolve stuff in. Any anti-gravity spots and that sludge accumulates, dissolving away slowly and supporting micro flora at a very cosy temperature away from the hot tank itself.

Edit: I suppose you can just let the tap flow a few minutes to counter most things.

 

[QldKev]

I mentioned it in the other thread, but though I would also post find my finding here.

I brewed for a while, heating water from scratch. Thought I would save some time (and money as our HWS used off peak power), and after a search on here for "hws system" I found heaps of results saying go for it (try the search using the google option, heaps of good info about metals etc). So I started using it. I no chill so I may be fermenting / drinking any brew in any order. A couple of months later, I noticed a taste in some brews and not others, when I check over my brew notes I found all the brews from the HWS had that taste about them. I stopped using the HWS from that point.

I think the issue with the HWS is there are so many different ones out there. Mine was an old style elec storage, I'm not sure how old it was but I owned the house for 9 years and never replaced it in that time, I didn't even replace the sacrificial anode. Maybe more modern tanks may give off less taste? Also if you are only brewing beers over powered by hops, or beers with huge malt / hop schedules, then you probably will not pick up a lot anyway.

Recently(last Oct) we have moved into a new house with a brand new solar hot water system. Up here I haven't even needed to turn on the booster yet. I'm thinking of giving it another go for a brew, as it's water sitting there which has been heated for free. But I want to get my new system sorted first, then I'll give it a try.

Before using it I'll give it the taste test.
On a brew day when your heating water in the HLT (or brew pot if BIAB) anyway,
Get a cup of water from the HWS and let it cool to room temp
Get a cup of water from the HLT and let it cool to room temp. (aim for the same temp as the HWS)
Once both are cool do a blind side by side taste test. (you can do a three way or what ever system you want to use)

QldKev

edit: Just though about the "saving money" and did the maths
For my 82L HLT is takes 2 x 2200w elements about 1 hr to get up to temp. So about 4400w of energy @ 25c kw/h or about $1.10c. And that is up to strike temp, whereas the HWS still needs some heating. So for under $1 not really worth worry about the cost saving in my opinion. It becomes just a time saver.

 

[Dave70]

As a Plumber we were taught that HWS water was non-potable (not fit for human consumption)
As pointed out previously there can be be a high mineral content from corrosion
& after changing many of them it is not unusual to get a 10L bucket of crap & sludge out of them when draining
If the temp control is poor then there is also a bacterial risk as well
You may well argue that its going to be boiled anyway
But to me it would be similar to using brackish water from a puddle ...... it`ll work, but its not really ideal

If hot water was truly unfit for human consumption, you wouldn't have it as an option to consume. I cant say we were ever taught this.
I've done plenty of HWS replacements and yes, that grubby stuff that inevitably stains your shirt / customers driveway / ute is truly rank. If you've ever worked on ductile iron water mains, you'll know the story isn't much better. Most would switch to bottled water if they saw what was inside those pipes.
I think the issue with most folks is particulate contamination, which easily filtered out.
Cryptosporidium outbreaks may be a different story.

I don't care any more as I'm on tank water, and most likely drinking a soup of dead frogs and birdshit.

 

[Jazzafish]

Yep, add the grist to the water.

If you have an, over the side style, immersion element, than why not heat your strike water in your MT? makes sense to me.

:icon_cheers:

:icon_offtopic:
I used to do this in my old system. Works really well, just add the grain slow and stir. The main reason I did it this way was to limit the mash tun's thermal mass and consistency over the seasons. IE: A cold mash tun will absorb more of the strike waters heat (I know people preheat their mashtuns to compensate)... also a transfer via a hose/gravity will loose heat. So your strike temp will be lower than normal if you try this.

 

[QldKev]

If hot water was truly unfit for human consumption, you wouldn't have it as an option to consume. I cant say we were ever taught this.
I've done plenty of HWS replacements and yes, that grubby stuff that inevitably stains your shirt / customers driveway / ute is truly rank. If you've ever worked on ductile iron water mains, you'll know the story isn't much better. Most would switch to bottled water if they saw what was inside those pipes.
I think the issue with most folks is particulate contamination, which easily filtered out.
Cryptosporidium outbreaks may be a different story.

I don't care any more as I'm on tank water, and most likely drinking a soup of dead frogs and birdshit.

At least with the dead frogs in the brew you don't need to do a protein rest. :lol:


More I think about it, I may not try using the HWS water again.

 

[bum]

If you've ever worked on ductile iron water mains, you'll know the story isn't much better. Most would switch to bottled water if they saw what was inside those pipes.

The ends of PVC mains aren't any better if there's not a service close by. Couldn't believe the smell the first time I cracked one. Thought it was sewerage.

 

[Bribie G]

On the point of Aluminium, a lot of the urban mythology surrounding it comes from the old furphy that it promotes Alzheimer's Disease.

In fact Aluminium is one of the most common elements in the environment, Aluminium Silicate is a major component of most clays.
The reason that God gave us hairs up our nose was to filter out dust particles in the environment so whenever you pass a roadworks, do some gardening or just out and about milking a cow, pulling a plough, in fact I'm getting it now,

NO not VB but a little dose of Aluminium as you sniff and swallow
Id bet that more aluminium passes through most people's bodies in a month than they would ever get from domestic sources in a lifetime.

FWIW my hws is fairly modern and I always use the hot, plus a bit of Gypsum or CaCl2 except when doing a comp brew or something a bit sophisticated that has to have a precise water profile, then I trot out the RO gear.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

My hotwater system is a solar thing that sits on the roof (<2 years old, as the 1970s one in my house crapped it - the bottom rusted off and sent hot water everywhere and my landlord replaced it).

However, I've never used hotwater.

Given the water has seemed to be harder and more alkaline since the flood, I reckon one may deliberately use hot water to get softer water when brewing something like a Boh Pils.

Given I brew more high hopped APA and British style beers, I generally stick with the tap water, as it is generally close enough to what I want it to be, without pfaffing about with chem adjustment.

Goomba

 

[seamad]

Just pulled out my tds meter.
I am on tank water. Have a 20+ yr old gas storage hws. All water goes through a 10 micron and kitchen through a carbon filter.
Hws 24 ppm
Normal cold tap 13 ppm
Carbon 8 ppm ( over a year old and needs replacing).

With a new carbon filter usually 6 and under so close to double ppm for each system. Whether this translates to other systems i have no idea.


With reference to copper cookware, it has to be regularly tin plated so food does not contact the copper

Cheers
Sean

 

[Flash_DG]

On the point of Aluminium, a lot of the urban mythology surrounding it comes from the old furphy that it promotes Alzheimer's Disease.

In fact Aluminium is one of the most common elements in the environment, Aluminium Silicate is a major component of most clays.
The reason that God gave us hairs up our nose was to filter out dust particles in the environment so whenever you pass a roadworks, do some gardening or just out and about milking a cow, pulling a plough, in fact I'm getting it now,

NO not VB but a little dose of Aluminium as you sniff and swallow
Id bet that more aluminium passes through most people's bodies in a month than they would ever get from domestic sources in a lifetime.

FWIW my hws is fairly modern and I always use the hot, plus a bit of Gypsum or CaCl2 except when doing a comp brew or something a bit sophisticated that has to have a precise water profile, then I trot out the RO gear.

Also have a look at the active ingredient of antacids and deoderant

 

[iralosavic]

Just pulled out my tds meter.
I am on tank water. Have a 20+ yr old gas storage hws. All water goes through a 10 micron and kitchen through a carbon filter.
Hws 24 ppm
Normal cold tap 13 ppm
Carbon 8 ppm ( over a year old and needs replacing).

With a new carbon filter usually 6 and under so close to double ppm for each system. Whether this translates to other systems i have no idea.


With reference to copper cookware, it has to be regularly tin plated so food does not contact the copper

Cheers
Sean

Your last comment is only partially correct. Copper cookware is commonly tin-plated or nowdays, stainless steel plated to make it more versatile (ie you can cook acidic foods in it), however, there is still a wide variety of uncoated copper cookware available - the most common use being for making jam. Many traditional professional kitchens still use uncoated copper cookware for many dishes.